Posts by LisaRose

96

Is the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses really an inferior form of Christianity?

by nicolaou in

seems to be quite a few posters recently pulling down the beliefs of jw's as not biblical or truly christian.

maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, i really don't care.. in some important ways though mainstream christians often behave better than jehovah's witnesses; most don't practice shunning or impose lethal medical prohibitions on their members.

many are far more tolerant of the lgbt community and a few even make the awkward attempt to square the fact of evolution with their faith.. please note that i'm saying some, not all.. so i suppose it's fair to say that differing forms of christianity can be better or worse for individuals, families and the wider community.

LisaRose

Thank you both. I actually attended a church for a while, I considered joining, but ultimately decided not to. My husband was raised in the United Church of Christ UCC, also called congregation (not regular Church of Christ, they are horrid) and I would visit when visiting his parents. I attended one where I live for a few months. It's a really nice group, I enjoyed the services, I guess there were a few things I missed about the religious experience. They had really awesome music too, and great snacks afterword, everyone was friendly. Congregations are small, it felt comfortable to me.

Although I ultimate decided against joining, it made me realize that a church does have something to offer for some people. I still have a sense of spirituality, and taking time to stop and acknowledge that is a nice thing sometimes. I get the same feeling by being around nature. They did a lot of charitable work, so that was nice also, sometimes it's nice to have a community of people with shared values. If someone still feels a connection to Christ and God but don't like anything like the rigid rules and end time BS of the JWs, they could do a lot worse than the UCC. I am sure there are other good churches as well. They have no doctrine, so if you don't believe in the trinity, or a literal hell that's OK, you don't have to. They were even OK with my atheism, they aren't judgemental. I am pretty sure most believe in evolution.

I was pretty down on religion after my JW experience, but this experience made me realize that religion can be a positive thing for some people. Some just are not ready to give up on the idea of God and telling them they are stupid and it's not logical is not going to help them any or convince them, in my opinion. I don't think there is a "one size" approach for those leaving a cult, I say do what works for you. Maybe it's just a stepping stone to life without religion, maybe it will be a destination, who knows?

Too many get hung up on the idea of the "one true religion" which is futile. People are imperfect, no religion is perfect. If Christianity is important to you, just find the one that you feel comfortable with and don't get too hung up on the details. Jesus certainly didn't give a long list of requirements for a church. Most of the things the JWs do aren't in the bible, so it's all just the opinion of men no matter what they say.

96

Is the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses really an inferior form of Christianity?

by nicolaou in

seems to be quite a few posters recently pulling down the beliefs of jw's as not biblical or truly christian.

maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, i really don't care.. in some important ways though mainstream christians often behave better than jehovah's witnesses; most don't practice shunning or impose lethal medical prohibitions on their members.

many are far more tolerant of the lgbt community and a few even make the awkward attempt to square the fact of evolution with their faith.. please note that i'm saying some, not all.. so i suppose it's fair to say that differing forms of christianity can be better or worse for individuals, families and the wider community.

LisaRose

I am not a believer, but I do think there are versions of Christianity that are far less destructive than Jehovah's Witnesses and I think some people need and want religion in their lives, for them there are much better choices. Religion can be something positive, if it helps you to be a better person, if it give you emotional support, a sense of belonging, a community, a moral framework.

The JWs may have gotten a few things right, but they are so wrong in so many other areas they have become a negative, destructive influence in the lives of everyone they touch, in my opinion.

Teaching that you have the only path to salvation is just plain wrong. Of course everyone thinks their own religion is the best, but other religions don't lead you to gleefully look forward to the violent destruction of the majority of mankind, simply because they don't subscribe to a flavor of Christianity. Belonging to a religion that fosters that kind of thinking is to lose a bit of your own humanity, your compassion and your humility. Teaching a literal hell for those not in your select group is just as bad. Many churches do not teach a literal hell.

The Watchtower places too much importance on doctrinal points that they believe only they get correct, when the bible says that the primary way to identify that a group is a true follower of Chtlrist is that they have love among themselves. When was the last time you heard a talk on showing love to others, or helping those in your own congregation? Instead the emphasis is strictly on the preaching work. People going through difficulties are criticized for missing meetings, there is no compassion. Those who miss enough meetings are dropped and shunned, as if they had committed a major sin. Is that love?

The early Christians were allowed to disagree, they were not disfellowshipped for it. They didn't have a rigid, grueling schedule of requirements to meet to gain salvation, they were saved by Christ's sacrifice. They weren't constantly made to feel guilty for minor transgressions or living a normal life. Other religions are not this way. If you miss services for some reason you are welcomed back, not made to feel guilty because you were the victim of difficult circumstances.

Other religions have joyful services, meaningful sermons of a rational length, beautiful music that is uplifting, and enjoyable fellowship. The Jehovah's Witnesses have hours of dry, joyless meetings, mind numbingly boring talks, and rote question and answer sessions where there is only one right answer, the one you are given. No room is made for self expression, for people expressing their individual gifts, for joy. Women are marginalized and given no real voice.

Instead of focusing on doctrine, look for a religion that helps you to be your best self. You could argue doctrine all day long, it won't make you a better person. Look for a group that doesn't force you to ignore scientific fact, there are quite a few of them. There are churches with no doctrine, they just allow you to be a Christian, imagine that. I think that is what religion has to become, if it is to stay meaningful in people's lives. We are not living in bible times, we can't pretend that science hasn't advanced and that we don't know we evolved, we can't pretend women are property anymore. The best religions acknowledge these realities while still trying to meet the spiritual needs of their members.

23

Non JW friends don't understand

by kozmo in

jw
friends

it never ceases to amaze me that your personal friends have no clue what it is like to have been one.

i was speaking with a friend the other day about having been a jw.

she said, oh i have a dear friend of 30 years who is one and she is so nice!

LisaRose

I agree, It's really hard for someone who was never in a cult to understand what it was like, how much it affects you, even years after leaving. They may think the JWs are weird, but still just a religion you can choose to leave like any other. Most people think of cults as people wearing weird clothes and living in communes, they cannot comprehend that the nice looking, friendly couple at their door have had been systematically conditioned to believe that eight men in New York speak for God and must be obeyed, even if it results in shunning their own children or even letting them die by refusing a life saving blood transfusion. Most people just can't comprehend how this can happen to normal, intelligent people.

I have been out for sixteen years, I have successfully moved on in my life, and I am lucky to be only minimally impacted by the religion at this point, yet I still occasionally find myself falling into some of the black and white thinking, the negativity and alienation I felt as a JW. I have met a few people that get it, if they have a relative in the group or were raised as a Mormon or other cult type religion, or people like HB, who have taken an interest (and thank you for that HB!). It's this ignorance of the dangers of cult mind control that allows groups like this to flourish, people don't see how destructive it is, they can get sucked in before they realize. Fortunately they are losing their influence in more industrialized countries, but they are still growing and a danger worldwide, and of course there are millions still stuck inside.

I think it's important to keep the conversation going, to keep educating people about the destructive nature of cult mind control. Don't be ashamed of your JW past, it wasn't your fault. Tell people what happened, how much it affected your life, how hard it was to leave. The more people know about this cancer the harder it is for them to get and maintain members.

49

The wonderful things you hear AFTER you step down as an elder!

by redpilltwice in

well, well, that was quite a heartfelt welcome on this site four days ago.

thank you all for the encouraging replies.

one of them was this one from magnum: "hey now, don't just pop your head in and disappear.

LisaRose

do have one nagging question though: If the GB is ONLY about getting people´s money and wanting to get more into the JW "cult" by evangelizing more and more just for the purpose of getting more donations, then why aren´t they living a luxurious life-style? Where is all that money going?

I don't think it's just about the money. While the Governing body does not have mansions that we know of, they do not live the life of a regular bethelite. They fly first class or chartered (see above comment), have more luxurious accommodations, fine clothes, fancy watches, etc. They are royalty in the JW world. That kind of power and adulation is like a drug. I don't think any of the GB is stockpiling cash, but who knows?

24

I'm ready to get my first Powerball ticket -- NOT!

by FatFreek 2005 in

jw
friends

it's up to some 800 zillion dollars now and hasn't suckered me in yet.

i've been out of watchtower for some 38 years now and i suppose the lottery is one of their nonoze.

i have nothing morally wrong against it or anyone who enjoys doing it.

LisaRose

I always thought it was a tax for people that are bad at math, your odd are better going to vegas. But I recently read that buying a lottery ticket gives your brain a little boost of serotonin, so I guess you could look at it as a few bucks that lets you live a fantasy, dreaming of what you would do with the money. I don't see the harm as long as you don't spend the rent money. My husband just bpught $20 in tickets, our first ever time to play the lottery. I'm not holding my breath though.

45

Don't know what to do

by looter in

jw
friends

i'm in a crazy situation.

about a year ago, i was going to get baptized.

it was all planned and arranged until ttatt was learned.

LisaRose

Talk to a counselor at school about alternative living arrangements in case you need to get out, it doesn't hurt to be prepared. Do you have any other relatives who might take you in? Are you planning to go to college? Maybe you will qualify for a scholarship, especially if you are homeless.

I don't recommend getting baptized unless as a last resort. It will forever complicate your life with your father if you later leave, which seems likely. You best bet is to become independent and live on your own. It probably seems daunting right now, but many have done it and I'm sure you will manage to. You might consider the military, you would be in a secure living situation and get college credit and possibly job training.

30

Why I like the Mormons and why they are so much nicer then the JWs.

by new boy in

jw
friends

i never really knew any until recently.

as a witness we all thought they were weird.

but the two faiths are a lot alike, except the mormons are really so much nicer than the jws!.

LisaRose

How many Mormons does it take to change a lightbulb?

Ten, one to change the bulb and nine to bring desert.

It's just another cult, better than JWs on some things, worse in other ways. They celebrate holidays, but have to wear magic underwear and can't have coffee or alcohol, so there's that. I knew a woman whose family shunned her because she refused to join, it's not as strictly enforced, but it does happen. I am glad I don't have to do either brand of crazy.

10

"True Story" - movie about Christian Longo

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

i just watched "true story" on netflix.. http://www.truestorymovie.com/.

disturbing.

it is about the relationship between christian longo and the journalist, mike finkel, who wrote a book about londo's murder of his family.. a person has to wonder about how dangerous it is to plant the notion of the dead being resurrected into the mind of a narcissist.

LisaRose

You could say this about any religion that teaches life after death, there have always been people who were unbalanced and saw death as a fast track to a better life for their family. While there is zero evidence for life after death, the main problem is not belief in it, but the mental illness that would lead someone to see that as a viable option.

That being said, there is something about the JW belief system that fosters black and white thinking in many, and that does influence the unbalanced and it is dangerous. They gleefully look forward to the violent death of most of the world's population, they kick people out for not blindly accepting everything said by the GB and force everyone to shun them, tearing apart families and causing depression in many, even suicides. They encourage people to refuse blood transfusions even at risk of death and keep intelligent young people from getting an education, chaining them to low level jobs and reduced incomes. In most people it simply makes them less compassionate, more judgemental and less able to think rationally, but in the unbalanced the consequences can be tragic.

291

Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

by cofty in

i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

LisaRose

Opinions rage in science just like religion. There are tons of science debate sites/forums and they cant agree on any more than this board. I know it seems like the world revolves around you Cofty but it doesn't.

Opinions rage about some things. About the basic facts of evolution there is no controversy among scientists, only among people who are determined to believe in something other than evolution. Really, it's not even close, even a basic book on evolution would convince anyone who has a greater than room temperature IQ and the willingness to accept truth when they find it.

If you want to believe that God created everything a few thousand years ago, that is your right, but don't try to pretend it is based on facts or science, or that there are any legitimate scientists that support these fantasies. Evolution has been proven beyond all doubt, over and over again. The fossil record, DNA research and multiple other evidence confirm the basic facts. New discoveries verify it every day.

People keep criticizing Cofty for stating that evolution is fact, but not one has ever offered anything approaching proof for their beliefs, not even close, not once in the years I have been reading this forum. instead they offer tired, silly arguments put forth by people who don't know what they are talking about, arguments that have been soundly disproved by legitimate scientists.

This does has a place in a board for former JWs. As Jehovah's Witnesses we we sold a lie by the Watchtower. They used silly, disproved arguments, deception, partial quotes and misquotes to create the illusion that science doesn't agree about evolution. If you figured out that they were lying about everything else, why would you not question their lies about evolution? Why would you not question everything you were taught by the Watchtower?

32

The disappointed look on a Jehovah's Witness face - that you're living a good and fulfilling life

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

another thread got me thinking of this issue.

i don't think you'll ever come across a set of people with such a skewed and twisted outlook on life.. my memory serves me well when i recall a sort of blood lusting excitement over things like the 9/11 atrocities.

in fact i remember jw's describing the event as 'sad but exciting.

LisaRose

Yeah, it's so true. Every time I see my sister now it's like she is suffering severe cognitive dissonance, trying to fit in what she she's in front of her, a happy , optimistic person, with what she tells herself about me when I am not around, that I am miserable, depressed and bitter. The mental gyrations she goes through to maintain this fiction must be exhausting, lol.