The system they adhere to is certainly idealological. The realization of this forced me out in late 2005. I saw the black and white thinking as logically flawed and not in harmony with reality.
d4g
done4good
JoinedPosts by done4good
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I ask the question: ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES simply IDEOLOGUES?
by Terry in1. an ideologue is only interested in their own view of the world to the exclusion of fresh ideas or counter arguments.. 2. an ideologue is never satisfied with the personal opinions of others because they want to convert others to their own opinions.
3. an ideologue cannot compromise because everything is black and white.
if you continue to disagree they must label you as an enemy.
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New NWT - what's the REAL reason?
by wallsofjericho inone thing i have learned over the years is there is a clear, distinct purpose to everything the wts does.
everything is done to accomplish a defined purpose.. did they really print millions of new bibles just to be more accurate?
after decades of toughting how much better the nwt was than any other bible?.
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done4good
This is not about money. In the end, the lose money on printing, thus, why they are closing printing factilties, reducing magazine production, and so forth. It is surely not about building "enthusiasm", as that wanes quickly. It is about long term preservation however, and that is the reason for the investment.
I have not read it, do not own it, (or any bible anymore), but I am aware the text in many areas has been made somewhat more ambiguous. This buys them latitute to change doctrine to suit them, (and help preserve them), in the long run. Any other benefit is secondary to this purpose.
d4g
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"And yet it moves !"
by Phizzy ingalileo is said to have uttered, or probably muttered these words in front of the inquisition after supposedly having reacanted his teaching that the solar system is heliocentric, as his predecessors kepler and copernicus had worked out.
(and a guy in 3rd century b.c greece !).
why was galileo unable to go back to his belief held by him in his youth, and nearly all people in christendom, that the earth was at the centre of the solar system and all the planets revolved around it ?.
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done4good
Band On The Run-Do you think it is "willful" when people have no access to other sources of information?
It is not exactly either willfill or not. It is mostly fear of having their worldview found to be false. Unfornately, this is a very human response.
d4g
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How long did you know TTATT while attending the meetings?
by Iamallcool ini did not know anything about ttatt while attending the meetings.. .
ttatt=the truth about the truth..
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done4good
Old Goat-
I really appreciated your perspective.
d4g
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How long did you know TTATT while attending the meetings?
by Iamallcool ini did not know anything about ttatt while attending the meetings.. .
ttatt=the truth about the truth..
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done4good
LisaRose-Then something happened to cause me to have what my (now) husband calls a BGO, a brilliant glimpse of the obvious, it just hit me that they had no more idea about anything than any other religion.
I actually did have a similar experience before I left. I just could not see it through all at once to motivate myself to leave right then and there. I was never the same after that day however, and I stopped attending within 6 months.
d4g
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How long did you know TTATT while attending the meetings?
by Iamallcool ini did not know anything about ttatt while attending the meetings.. .
ttatt=the truth about the truth..
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done4good
I knew nothing at all. I did not even consider researching anything until about 3 months after I left completely. I left because I could tell something was very wrong, (personal bad experiences have a way of doing that), but could not put my finger on it.
Only after getting a much clearer head after my departure could I begin to see it was time to closely examine what I believed.
d4g
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Reverse Witnessing - Will NEVER work!
by MissConfused inits been a while since i spoke up.
after a lot of 'tactful' questioning, i have come under the conclusion that witnessing ttatt with dubs will never work.
there is nothing called reasoning with them.
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done4good
In order to be effective, "Reverse witnessing" needs to take place under a few guidelines:
1. Be empathetic and respectful.
2. Do not discuss doctrine. Keep things on a human level. Doctrinal discussions guarantee a closed mind.
3. Do not expect immediate results. Do expect at least some fallout at first, and do not overreact to this.
4. Know when to back off. This is really an art.
5. Be very selective in whom you decide to speak to.
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The True Nature of Shunning
by done4good inalthough i have been out for 8+ years, my recent experiences with this have taught me quite a bit.
i believe most here would claim this is what mind controlled people do when they are in contact with a known "former" believer, so i think some deeper understnding of what is really going on is in order.. i always asked why is the "mind control" so effective and how do the organizations that intiate it, learn how to?
i never really could find a satisfactory answer.
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done4good
only me -I believe it's the people behind the GB that are the ones who know the techniques and are implementing them using the GB. I think the GB know it is not the truth but they are controlled by someone else. Just my thoughts, no proof, but it makes sense to me.
I understand that, and this is where I have come to understand it is just not that simple. Too many questions actually go unanswered with that view. For starters, it pretty much makes most of what Ray Franz wrote about in CoC regarding the nature of the GB untrue. Since I have had personal exchanges with him when he was still alive, I trust what he says. This is why we see a common recurring theme on these boards surrounding the issue "does the GB really believe?". That fact is, basically, yes they do, as do the R&F.
Secondly, when several lines of evidence are considered it is the only answer that meets all of the criteria. This is beyond the scope of what can be written about in a few paragraphs on a message board, but the more someone understands about our own psychological makup, social interactions, history, etc., the better we can see how this can happen. In short, no one can accept their life is a big lie that easily. The bigger the lie, the harder it is to accept that change needs to take place, and proportionally, the more committed one becomes to that lie.
d4g
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The True Nature of Shunning
by done4good inalthough i have been out for 8+ years, my recent experiences with this have taught me quite a bit.
i believe most here would claim this is what mind controlled people do when they are in contact with a known "former" believer, so i think some deeper understnding of what is really going on is in order.. i always asked why is the "mind control" so effective and how do the organizations that intiate it, learn how to?
i never really could find a satisfactory answer.
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done4good
Although I have been out for 8+ years, my recent experiences with this have taught me quite a bit. I believe most here would claim this is what mind controlled people do when they are in contact with a known "former" believer, so I think some deeper understnding of what is really going on is in order.
I always asked why is the "mind control" so effective and how do the organizations that intiate it, learn how to? I never really could find a satisfactory answer. I have read, (most of) Hassan, and while he goes to great lengths to explain what BITE techniques are and so forth, very little is actually discussed as to the nature of such techniques, let alone explaining why most, if not all, JWs and others in "cult" type religious organizations respond in the same manner to certain situations, that they "see" as a potential threat. The fact is, the people running the WT are not that intelligent or educated. They really cannot understand how to effectively and deliberatly manipulate people to all respond the same way. There must another reason for this.
Much of what I learned about authoritarian organzations over the last few years, (be it religious, national, corporate, etc.), is that they generally are not run by the most enlightened of the human race. That said, most, (take North Korea, for example), are very effective at this level of manipulation. The same can be said for certain political groups in my own country, (USA). None of people running these groups are particularly intelligent or well educated, but somehow they manage to control the masses. There is a parallel here.
The parallel has eveything to do with what "reality" one is exposed to. If a person is immersed in a way of life that is not in fact actual reality, but rather something that obfuscates reality, they really have no point of reference to know otherwise. This is why it is often damn near impossible to make any headway with born-ins, and why most of Hassan's work is focused on converts.
People listen to political talk radio shows to create that alternative reality. They are able to immerse themselves in their confirmation bias. The difference with these folks, is that there is enough actual reality to be demonstarted to them once they turn the radio off. So at least they have a chance. Unfortunately, this is not so with someone who is born and raised in a system that keeps them uneducated, poor, and reliant on the only reality they know.
I have found that even with those who are in fact educated better than the average JW, or who are more successful than the average JW, the reality they were forced to accept is too strong. They may be riddled with cognitive dissonance, but they do not know it, and do not try to point it out to them. They will dig their heels in deeper. Such is the nature of cognitive dissonance. I have found even with these folks, the mere presence of someone who they know no longer is a believer is too hard for them to take. The will shun by their very nature. No need for the organization to force them at all. They shun because they sense that a person who no longer believes is a threat to their understanding of reality. No words need be spoken about "The Truth" at all. The fact that an intelligent person no longer believes is enough for them to go running to hills to find their known "reality".
People experience cognitive dissonance because their intuitive brain, (the primary decision maker), cannot hold two conflicting thoughts in the same space. The rational brain, (much slower to respond), is capable of this so it can reason with the data. This is why if you get a JW passed the intuitive brain limitations, they will resort to rationalization to explain away the inconsistencies. The rational brain tries to make sense of the conflict, even if sometimes it has to resort to making 2+2=5. This is not the proper way to deal with the conflict either, but at least it is an attempt of the rational brain to work with the two congnitions presented. However, the rational brain seldom has time to be invoked in these situations. The fight or flight mode is invoked by the intuitve brain more often than not, and there you have the shunning response. Just about as involuntary as avoiding any other uncomfortable situation.
The bottom line is, they cannot help it. Unless they attempt to understnd the psychology involved, (which they will not do while still a believer), the response will be the same every time. Few XJWs understand this, a believing JW has little to no chance, thus no chance to correct the behavior.
Given the above, unless you are willing to live the consequences of being 100% honest with your loved ones still in, fading may be the better option for many, since actually coming clean with what you really know will only invoke ones greatest fear - their understanding of what reality is itself.
I DA'd 7 years ago, and I am now paying for it, a little...
d4g
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Try out Ubuntu Operating System
by lambsbottom inhi everyone,.
just wanted to encourage y'all to try out ubuntu, the free and amazing operating system (alternative to windows) at ubuntu.com .
i can help anyone if they don't know how to install it.. also, don't forget to use openoffice.org office suite over microsoft office.
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done4good
OR - You can get a MAC , which is Virus free, never crashes and is reliable, stable, fast and
blows Windows out of the water every time. But of course Windows was an attempt to immitate
the graphical interface operating system Apple invented in 1977.
Btw, Apple did not invent the GUI. Xerox did in 1973. They gave it to Steve Jobs in around 1980, (along with Ethernet, and email technology), because they thought it had no market. They developed it for the "paperless office" concept that never materialized in the 1970s.
d4g.