Posts by done4good

33

Why do people choose to d'assoc by letter instead of just fading?

by journey-on in

jw
friends

i simply gradually quit going.

of course, this was many years ago and maybe the "rules" have changed, but rather than create drama among my family, i just let them think i was becoming materialistic and spiritually weak.

at least it kept them talking and associating with me rather than cutting me off.

done4good

Fading has been relatively easy for me, because I moved at the same time. That dosen't mean a fader is ever truly, "out the woods", though. I would have d/a'd if I did not have that luxury. Now I just feel, if they df me, so freakin' what!

j

37

How much JW doctrine is in harmony with the Bible?

by OnTheWayOut in

some have stated that the jw's go too far with their doctrine, but that much of the basic.

beliefs of the religion are correct.

i don't want to debate whether the bible is correct.. i just want opinions on how much of the jw doctrine agrees with the actual teachings of .

done4good

Unfortunately most of the answers you have been provided on this thread have come from persons who have renounced all faith in the bible as God's inspired word. You said that you did not want to discuss the reliability of the bible, but that is exactly what the thread immediately degenerated into. These posters have resorted to an argument that since the bible is a plagiarised mess then we cannot trust anything it says and everything in it is open to interpretation. So your question is redundant. You wont get very far by putting a lot of stock on the views of atheists and other persons on this forum who can only respond to questions on bible doctrine from the point of reference that that the bible is nothing more than a human work, an ensemble of fictitious writings.

Sorry you feel this has "degenerated" into something that you don't agree with. I no more WANT to be an atheist or agnostic, than someone who has to get root canal wants one. It's what I HAD to do, after considering the EVIDENCE that history provides neither supports the church's view on matters OR the bible itself. At least I'm intellectually honest enough to provide a point of view that sheds some light on THAT POSSIBILITY. It appears you are no different than the jw who must demonize someone by labeling them "apostate", (i.e. Atheists and other persons on this forum who can only respond to questions on bible doctrine from the point of reference that the bible is nothing more than a human work, an ensamble of fictitious writings"). Somehow our opinion just dosen't matter, according to you. Nowhere did OTWO suggest that this topic was only open to BELIEVERS, perhaps you didn't notice that.

Nowhere did I state, (as anyone else), that these things are open to interpretation. You missed the point entirely, attempting to defend your shaken belief system. The point I was making, is that the jws were making an honest attempt to fix things that the churches got wrong, (i.e. the Trinity, Hellfire, and the like). Scripture has indeed evolved to support such doctrine, even if only in a weak sense. MOST CHRISTIAINS belived these falsehoods by the second century, (which was the REAL century when anything we today regard as Christianity began). Much of, (what we today call), the bible was influenced by this thinking.

I really don't like to get into these type of atheist/agnostic vs. believer type of discussions. You forced this one out of me.

Jason

75

I'm going to be disfellowshipped on Wednesday

by Thinking of Leaving in

the elders cames to my home on saturday and i didn't answer the door, so they told my sister to relay the message.

the message was "you know what it's about, we're going to make the announcement next meeting".

i knew it was coming...but it feels so weird.

done4good

Best thing that can happen to you!

j

37

How much JW doctrine is in harmony with the Bible?

by OnTheWayOut in

some have stated that the jw's go too far with their doctrine, but that much of the basic.

beliefs of the religion are correct.

i don't want to debate whether the bible is correct.. i just want opinions on how much of the jw doctrine agrees with the actual teachings of .

done4good

Still, no serious takers on "They have much right." ?

It's really tough to have that discussion, without biases and personal beliefs as to how their doctrine came about. From what I can tell, what I stated earlier, still stands. Jw doctrine didn't exactly come out of thin air, but rather it was, (originally), an honest attempt of reconciling things that were not explicity taught in scripture. That is, what became the endless circle of changes that could never be taken from reading the scriptures themselves at face value. That is why jw doctrine is so different, from mainsteam Christianity. Yes, they do miss the simple things, such as "love your neighbor". They are too busy always trying to construct, (or re-construct), their theology.

Zico,

To my earlier point, much of our current bible today, (the "accepted" bible), is not based on the earliest of manuscripts. If anything, what was mostly kept in the bible, had more to do with the number of copies that had similarities, as opposed to how old they were. Much of it was "theologized", in the same manner that the wts creates a theology. Certain beliefs were already held to, and scripture was added or changed to make certain arguments hold. A true believer will argue with this surely, but one can peice together the evidence, to get a picture of what probably happened here.

Russell, (among others), attempted to undo this somewhow. That's impossible, if one is going to hold to the theory that the bible is an inspired book.

j

37

How much JW doctrine is in harmony with the Bible?

by OnTheWayOut in

some have stated that the jw's go too far with their doctrine, but that much of the basic.

beliefs of the religion are correct.

i don't want to debate whether the bible is correct.. i just want opinions on how much of the jw doctrine agrees with the actual teachings of .

done4good

Are you sure? This doesn't make sense to me, why would that be a double-edged sword to the WT? If it wasn't in the earliest manuscripts, the WT could easily have left out a very problematic scripture from their NWT.

While I can't say I've actually seen the things myself, (obviously), this is considered fact by biblical scholars. The book Misquoting Jesus, has something to say along these lines.

As for the reason they won't "go there", that should almost be obvious. This is not the only scripture that can't be found in the earliest NT manuscripts. The fact is, you would be left with a Swiss Cheese bible, if the wt took the same cavalier attitude toward all of the other questionable verses, and just decided to convienently "leave them out".

The NT is a mess, quite honestly.

j

37

How much JW doctrine is in harmony with the Bible?

by OnTheWayOut in

some have stated that the jw's go too far with their doctrine, but that much of the basic.

beliefs of the religion are correct.

i don't want to debate whether the bible is correct.. i just want opinions on how much of the jw doctrine agrees with the actual teachings of .

done4good

Without stating my personal views on the bible itself, what I can say concerning this has much to do with one's perspective on how they look at the bible. In the beginning of the WT, Russell made one fatal flaw, that the mainstream religions have managed to stay away from. That is, he attempted to try to make sense of the bible. There are indeed contradictions. Russell tried to reconcile these, and in the process, probably got some things right, even if for the wrong reasons.

An example of this would be what is says in John 1:1. The WT's argument on this has always been weak. No good scholar agrees with them on this, but why? There is a very simple reason, but it is a double edged sword for the wt. The earliest manuscrpits DON'T CONTAIN THIS VERSE. Or the 17 that follow it! They were added by a scribe at some point later in time, who guess what? Actually believed Jesus to be god! The fact of the matter is, the trinity became church doctrine, only because that is what most Christians believed at the time. The wt will never support the real reason the trinity is false. It would mean having to accept that somehow, the bible is not inspired. Can't have that.

This is precisely why most of the churches don't put too much stock in the bible. They are all too well aware of the pitfalls here.

j

62

gettin a bike

by IP_SEC in

jw
friends

im going down to cajun harley today and im not leaving without a bike.. too bad i cant fit 100 lbs of crawfish on it .

done4good

Congrats, IP. I've been wanting one of those, (VROD specifically), for some time. Haven't quite got the wife convinced, yet.

Maybe just get one and say it followed me home???

j

44

Love And Marriage Was The Watchtowers Way An Advantage?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

love and marriage was the watchtowers way an advantage?the thought of one man and woman bonded through matrimony was always appealing.

the society used to stress chaperons, however, i think in todays day and age.

however, did the societys way prove helpful in certain respects?.

done4good

I think in a perfect world monogamous relationships are high up there on my list of ideals.
Unfortunately, in Watchtower World the strict enforcement of chastity prior to marriage sets people up for disappointment and frustration. I would have preferred the option to experiment sexually before making a lifelong commitment to someone. That way I would know what I could reasonably expect in the context of marriage.
The other thing that happens is that JW people "in lust" feel pressured to get married to avoid the sin of fornication - and sometimes make very poor choices in whom they marry, often before they know the person well enough to determine whether they are going to be in an abusive relationship. I feel that it would be better to allow them to be sexually active in the context of a long term relationship rather than force a commitment between two people who are not suited for each other.

Right on, Scully!

j

44

Love And Marriage Was The Watchtowers Way An Advantage?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

love and marriage was the watchtowers way an advantage?the thought of one man and woman bonded through matrimony was always appealing.

the society used to stress chaperons, however, i think in todays day and age.

however, did the societys way prove helpful in certain respects?.

done4good

While I believe marriage is generally a good thing, the WT's mitigation and legislation of dating and marriage seems to cause more problems than it solves. I can speak from experience in this department, (as many here also can). Nothing comes naturally in a jw marriage. I know of too many witness couples who are just plain unhappy. The ones that end up in divorce are usually the lucky ones. I say this because the lessons learned here often force one to critically and honestly look at the organization. Many leave the borg along with their marriage, (as I did).

j

39

How much have you changed since you left the JWs..........

by fifi40 in

jw
friends

the reason that i ask this question is for two reasons mainly.. firstly, my experience as a jw and within the various congregations i was part of, was that they were a very mixed bag.

there were those who were very devout, studious and appeared to be very humble and placid in nature.

there were those that were very judgemental of others.

done4good

As a dub, I was always somewhat in the middle of the road. I took many things seriously, (mostly, the stuff that really mattered), and was quite liberal in other areas, (I was much more down to earth, and preferred to associate with other jws that were). Too many things didn't add up in my life, then. These days, I'm still down to earth, but much happier. I've learned to enjoy the things I pretty much always enjoyed, just without any guilt now. Life makes a lot more sense this way.

j