"You don't think an increase in sex between couples would increase the likelihood of pregnancy? Umm, ok. It's an agree to disagree situation then."
Sero,
Of course it would increase the probability, but it wouldn't definitely mean more children. I really don't think it would be fair to assume it is the motive behind his suggestion.
Posts by Zico
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Zico
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Zico
"I think the poor man is just trying to encourange husbands and wives to still enjoy one another - nothing wrong with that."
I agree Lou, and I see no reason to assume otherwise.
Sero,
"But would you deny it would be, at the very least, a natural side effect of his suggestion?"
I would deny it, because it won't of necessity produce more children.
Do you always assume the worst in people, or just religious people? -
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Moral Values of an Atheist
by hamilcarr insome thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?
it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .
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Zico
"This is a reply to Zico who claimed I considered atheists 'higher' than christians and that I had never met a christian outside the WT organization.'."
What!? Hang on Hamilcarr, I said you claimed atheists had higher values, which you did, in page 1 of this thread, and in your 28th post.
And I NEVER claimed you hadn't met a Christian outside the Watchtower walls, I asked you how much experience you had outside the Watchtower walls, I never claimed anything about your experiences! I just asked a question! -
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Why do Jehovah's Witnesses grow so rapidly?
by slimboyback inthat's a stupid question isn't it?
all apostates "know" that the era of witness growth is well and truly over.
the internet has revealed the man behind the watchtower curtain and people are leaving in droves, especially in the western world!
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Zico
The book 'What does the Bible really teach?' has had a big part in this. It's simple. Simple for the student, and simple for the teacher. Because Jehovah's Witnesses find it so easy to use as a 'teaching tool' it's given many of them more motivation to seek studies, in my observation.
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Zico
I think it was a power struggle.
No clear evidence for adultery, and I don't think Maria even accused him of it. -
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Zico
"More sex = more chance of having babies = more young minds to indoctrinate = more members in the congregation."
Have you assumed this is the motivation behind the pastor's suggestion? If so, that's surely a bit unfair, isn't it? -
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Moral Values of an Atheist
by hamilcarr insome thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?
it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .
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Zico
Gopher:
I agree with your definition of good.
It's interesting to me that "Society" seems to have created social mores that emphasise community over self, and which seems to transcend the notion of 'survival of the fittest'
On my opinion that people aren't inherently good, I don't think a knowledge of good and bad is something people are born with. I think it's something that is developed during our lives based on experience and cultural imprinting, and thus, I believe Christianity has had an influence on it, and I was questioning how 'atheist values' could be higher when they seem so alike to me, and when one had strong influence on the other, as this is what the thread is about.
I understand your analogy though.
Hamilcarr:
You agree with the importance of the golden rule and accept it as a part of Christian ethics, yet you believe atheists have 'higher values' What makes it higher? Just that you believe they follow their values better?
I can't see where a Christian would disagree with you on your definition on good, so I can't see the basis for any claim to be 'higher' than another. and where do you think YOU learned the Golden rule from?
"I started this thread because I had observed that while christians claim they are the protectors of ethics their 'love thy neighbor' is less universal than atheists"
I too have had the pleasure of meeting some wonderful atheists and their are many on this board. I've also met some wonderful christians and again, their are many on this board. I'm curious, how much experience have you had with Christianity outside of the walls of the Watchtower? Even if you accept Jehovah's Witnesses as a Christian denomination, they're certainly a minor one among a very diverse group of people.
Lore:
I mean that, I believe Christianity has had some influence, not necessarily all influence, on our moral values, whether we are currently Christians or not, I don't mean that they invented morality. -
100
Moral Values of an Atheist
by hamilcarr insome thoughts spinning through my head .... what does it mean to be an atheist?
it means you cannot imagine your homosexual neighbor being slaughtered by a loving god at judgment's day, it means you don't consider the primitive tribe described in numbers 31 that slew midianite men and raped innocent virgins to be god's first covenant people, it means you don't believe mankind is so perverted that it is in need of salvation through a man who came 'not with peace, but with a sword', it means you have high moral values that apply not only to the members of your denomination but to all men.. h. .
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Zico
Ah Gopher, one of my favourite posters! (I mean this)
"Just some questions, Zico"
I expected some!
"Why do you say "higher" good. Why can't we just say good and bad?"
We can, if you prefer. I used the term 'higher' good because a few posters claimed to have 'higher' values as atheists. Who says they're higher? Where did this concept of a 'higher' good or 'higher value' come from?
"Who is the "our" to which you refer?"
The people on this board and in this thread who predominantly come from Judeo-Christian societies and are thus strongly influenced by Christianity, even if they don't want to admit it!
"What about the two-thirds of the world that does not claim to be Christian? Are they automatically immoral..."
No, and in case you think I was suggesting atheists are immoral simply because they are not Christians, I do not believe this.
"...or can they develop 'constructs of good' that are independent of Christianity?"
I don't think people are inherently 'good' I think the concept of good is something that is accumulated through generations of cultural imprinting. I believe our (see above definition of our) cultural imprinting and thus definition of good finds it's basis in Christianity. There are other 'constructs of good' and definitions, but I'm trying to work from a definition I think I share with the atheists on this thread, which finds it's fundamental basis in the golden rule.
My own questions, if I may:
If all that exists is a godless survival of the fittest world, where is good? Where does the concept of good and bad come from? How is following the golden rule, for example, of benefit? What stops individuals from spreading their seed at the cost of the community?
I'd also be interested in hearing your own definition of 'good' if you have one?
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Hamilcarr, I'd also be interested in hearing your definition of 'good' -
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When British District Conventions?
by Gordy inhave the dates for the district conventions in britain been announced yet?.
if they have can anyone let me know the dates and places.. thanks .
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Zico
"I know this is a hypothetical question but if I can attend just one day, on which one am I least likely to die of boredom?"
Sunday, deffo, because of the drama! The acting is never going to win any awards, but it's still more entertaining than most of the talks.
Plus, Sunday is ALWAYS the shortest day. It will finish around 4 to allow people with a lot of travelling time to get home. -
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..Vending Machines and JW Assemblies..
by OUTLAW in.."out of order"..no vending machine is complete at a jw assembly,without an "out of order" sign on it.....of course it`s not true..the machine works fine..it`s just one of the many lies jw`s are willing to accept from the wbt$.....although..this lie is extremely large and visible,it`s a frigg`n vending machine!..lol!
!.............does the management that rents the facilities to the wbt$,know the wbt$ is disabling them?....does the owners of the vending machines know the wbt$ is disabling them,and interfering with their right to do business in that facility?......could the wbt$ be sued for loss of vending machine business?.......wouldn`t it be fun to let the vending machine owners know their machines are being disabled,at jehovah`s witness assemblies?......it would mean more bad publicity for the wbt$ for lying and court cases they couldn`t win...................outlaw
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Zico
This is a new one to me! I've always happily used vending machines at Conventions and Assemblies with no issues or guards.
Ozner,
The Convention I went to Summer 2007 had a 'visa/mastercard acceptpoint' for donations by bankcard. I think they've been doing this for a few years in the UK. Because the WTS is a registered charity you can even get a form when you donate that you can fill in and give to the Tax department, because in the UK you can get tax concessions when you give to charities. They even announce this to encourage people to donate.