Zico

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Posts by Zico

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  56

  The Trinity ( arguement to end all arguments I hope )

  by 5go in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i pretty much don't think much of christendom.

  but why do christians insist on holding such an unholdable position with the trinity.. the bible i agree holds proof for both trinity and nontrinity positions.. i still don't get why that christians other than catholics would hold such an untenable position as god came down to earth but didn't, and he prayed ( talked ) to himself a lot.. .

  i remember a comedy sketch were some kids were stumping a nun in catholic school with question on the trinity and the eurachrist..

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  Zico

  Lol, you're not gonna end a 1600 year old argument with this one post! :)
  
  'I still don't get why that christians other than catholics would hold such an untenable position as god came down to earth but didn't, and he prayed ( talked ) to himself a lot.'
  
  The WT Society often creates a strawman when it discusses the Trinity. They turn it into modalism, this is the belief that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all the same being in different forms. This is NOT what the Trinity teaches. Trinitarians believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 different, seperate persons, in one God. Sort of like, together they all share the title God (Like 6 billion humans share the title mankind) From this perspective, there's no issues with one member of God coming to Earth, or one member of God praying to a different member. Just like there'd be no problem with different members of mankind talking to each other, or moving away from each other, because they're not the same person!
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  9

  I've been asked to explain the Trinity...............

  by whyizit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a jw friend of mine asked me what the trinity means to me and how i can use the bible to explain it.

  why others think it is so important.. i understand that this could be a baiting technique to try to pull me into a debate, but in another aspect, i think she really could be wondering about it.

  lately she has appeared a little disgruntled with the wts.

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  Zico

  Well, I think it would be important to explain what the Trinity IS, as most JWs think it's that Son, Father and Holy Spirit are the same being, whereas the Trinity teaches it's 3 seperate beings who together carry the title 'God'
  
  Arguing the Trinity won't be easy. I think it would be best to focus on the WT's deception in their Trinity brochure, which there are many threads and web-pages on, or at least start by focusing on Jesus divinity. Prove he's not Michael, which is quite easy, and that he's far more than the WT teaches he is.
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  299

  Are JW's generally better than average people?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i for one, would blindly trust just about anyone on this forum, just the fact of knowing that you already were a jw.. does this mean that jw's in general are better people or are we a very close bunch of people?.

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  Zico

  Rosalee,
  
  Surely you have known some JWs to lie before?
  
  (And I mean lie, not hide the Truth, which I agree is not lying)
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  18

  Literal or figurative Heaven? Revelation Grand Climax - page 68

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here i sit, doing my hubby's study again.

  a little creative editing on the part of the revelation writers caught my eye.

  we are studying the laodiceans this week.

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  Zico

  It's always symbolic or figurative if it doesn't fit the Society's doctrine.
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  20

  Has the WTS ever published a complete list of babylonian kings??

  by cultswatter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lets cut to the chase shall we.

  i'm looking for the wts list of babylonian kings and the years they reigned.

  evidently the wts discredits any historical list of babylonian kings.

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  Zico

  They've never published a specific list, or shown specifically where the discrepancy is suppose to lie, their argument against 587 is based entirely on 'The evidence isn't fully conclusive' and 'it contradicts the bible' Their isn't really much to it.
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  1

  The THIRD COMING of jesus???

  by MR. BORN AGAIN in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw a new wt at my fathers house this weekend.

  it was titled something like the return of jesus, what does it mean to you?

  now i was always taught that jesus returned in 1914. so this would be the third coming of jesus.

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  Zico

  Probably trying to appear more mainstream, when you look at the Convention title as well, they're certainly not heading in that direction though.
  
  The third coming is Armageddon according to JW doctrine. I think that's what that WT refers to.
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  29

  Plucking rafters from thine eye...

  by Crumpet in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  okay anyone got a cure for styes - i'm not sure it is a stye - just my eye is twitching and its really annoying.

  anyway i can stop it short of pegging my eyelid?

  i am not going to america with a twitch - you'll think all us english folks have that problem.. .

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  Zico

  Maybe it con-junc-tee-vy-tis?
  
  Texans - beware of Crumpet, it's contagious. ;)
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  22

  Talk #3, Setting: On a Return Visit

  by Confession in

  1. social
  2. humour

  [here are your notes...].

  cindy: linda, i don't think i can continue our study any longer.. linda: why not, cindy?.

  c: well you know i'm catholic, and i just found this article in my roman catholic weekly.

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  Zico

  That's very good Confession. Could be useful in showing a JW the folly of their strong anti-apostate ideas.
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  15

  Jesus, Michael, archangels - People who live in glass houses shouldn't....

  by Inquisitor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jesus may not be archangel michael (as the wts teaches), but it is still conceivable that he may be an archangel.

  the arguments often heard on jwd are very adamant that the role of archangelship is sooooo below his lofty reach.

  but is there valid scriptural proof that it is so?

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  Zico

  Speculation is cool, but turning obvious speculation into definite doctrine that you can be disfellowshipped for disagreeing with is a bit off.
  
  Personally, though, I still don't see any strong link between Jesus and Michael, although I know you weren't trying to prove it, but any association is still very speculative without a definite statement. Even if it's possible that Jesus is Michael, or just another archangel, the scriptural links are still quite weak.
  
  I also don't think you have to have a Trinitarian agenda if you try to prove JWs wrong on this one. Lovelylil was actually a unitarian.
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  57

  "Follow the Christ " conventions...is it me?

  by Gordy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  looking at the convention invitation,.

  does anyone get the feeling this is a ploy by the wt to project themselves as "christian".

  the way it is worded gives the image that they are "christ centred".

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  Zico

  Personally I don't think they'll go down the 'The Christ includes the FDS' route. I think they'll just misrepresent what following Jesus means.
  
  In the Kingdom Ministry they had a talk called 'Follow the Christ by maintaining dignity' and then had a talk about how following Jesus meant dressing appropriately, not chewing gum, sitting in the right place etc... Stuff that has nothing to do with anything with what Jesus said, but they'll pretend it did anyway.
  
  They'll probably claim following Jesus involves following the Org he's appointed, but not that the Org is the Christ itself.