Posts by onacruse

14

Hey good looking!

by joelbear69 in

there are a lot more good looking guys here .

now than when i was actively posting here .

a few years ago.

onacruse

nomoreguilt:

I have been told that I look like George Hamilton.

Sorry to hear that...have you ~~consorted with~~ consulted a plastic surgeon?

43

The disfellowshipping of Walter Salter

by onacruse in

on a recent thread farkel provided a transcript of a letter written by walter salter in 1937:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/149105/2710321/post.ashx#2710321.

in all my years i have never seen the wts respond as vigorously and openly as it did to this event...not even ray franz got this much attention.. as an opener, here is the initial response printed in the wt (this is also a transcript, but .pdf's of the original can be provided as needed):.

onacruse

Here's the letter from Thomas J. Sullivan (long-time member of the WTS Board of Directors, and also of the GB). Unlike the articles above, I've added some bolds:

A Personal Statement Regarding Salter*
* At the last minute, just before going to press, a copy of this letter of T. J. Sullivan to Judge Rutherford was shown to the editor by its author. Its use was begged for this issue. All lovers of truth and justice will enjoy it.
April 16, 1937
DEAR BROTHER RUTHERFORD:
I have just received a copy of Salter's latest tirade, which, for pure hypocrisy and deceit, has no equal. It is a series of deliberate perversion and misapplication of facts which brands it, without a question of doubt, as of the Devil, and his sole intention is to poison the brethren and lead them astray.
I have known this man for the past twenty or more years. We were "elders" together in the hectic days of 1917 and 1918. I have seen the man in his native "heather" with all his bombastic arrogance and conceit manifested from one end of Canada to the other. I have seen him here at Brooklyn, suave, deceitful and an entirely different man from outward appearance. I do not believe the man was ever in the truth, but was and is one of the biggest hypocrites I know.
During the number of years that he has represented the Society I have never known him at any time to give a talk on The Watchtower or any of the Society's publications, but he has always endeavored to use some Tower article or book to substantiate some rattle-brain scheme or theory of his own, an exact reproduction of the ministers who take a text of the Bible as a basis for their devilish theories. I am glad that the Lord has now torn the mask off and revealed the man for what he really is.
In the entire mass of junk that he is sending out there is but one accurate statement, and that is, that he was not capable of answering the party who is reported to have given him the material on our Lord's return and the resurrection of the saints. The man was at no time capable of giving an answer for the hope that was within him because he has really never seen the Lord's organization nor properly discerned the body of Christ.
His covering letter sending out this trash to the brethren is devilish in the extreme. He encloses it in one of the regular Watch Tower envelopes with the return address of 117 Adams Street, which was calculated, of course, to deceive the brethren and lead them to believe that the material was forwarded from the Society's headquarters. By referring to himself as "Salter" and you as "Brother Rutherford" he intended to further his satanic scheme by creating the impression that this was submitted to the brethren for their consideration by the Society, and in order to further develop the deception he then created the impression that these were organization instructions which were not discretionary but entirely mandatory.
All of this reveals the man in his true position as one governed by deceit, hypocrisy, and as a willing tool of the adversary. The implication of his own action is that he is doing this to further the interests of the Lord's work. This would also imply, then, that the Lord was the author of this hypocritical and devilish procedure and would approve such a course of action. His god undoubtedly would, but Jehovah would not.
Salter "raises holy hands in horror" at the pictures and statements appearing in The Golden Age against the Hierarchy and the various other elements of the Devil's organization, but at the same time he is willing to defame and degrade the name of Jehovah God by implying that the course that he is following is approved before the Lord.
Regarding this tirade against you personally: I have never at any time seen such a manipulation, misapplication and perversion of simple facts with such devilish intent. His reference to your homes or offices at Columbia Heights, Staten Island, California, and in other places, as palatial residences with luxurious furnishings, etc., is a deliberate falsehood, and he knows it to be so. He knows that the furnishings of all three places are practical, business-office furniture intended for the furtherance of the Lord's work. In fact, it has often occurred to me, when I had occasion to be in your office for any length of time in the Lord's business, that it could be much more comfortable without taking away in the least from the efficiency of the Lord's work.
However, the fact that impresses me is that he deliberately lies and misrepresents conditions he knows of in order to interfere with the Lord's work. He knows that it is a physical impossibility to settle down and do the studying and research work necessary for the purpose of preparing the Watchtower and book material and other necessary Kingdom service at the office at 124 Columbia Heights, because of the innumerable interruptions of all sorts that occur there from the telephone, the various brethren calling up about this, that and the other thing. He also knows of your physical condition making it impossible for you to live in the eastern part of the United States during the winter months and look after the direction of the Lord's work and prepare the necessary material that should be prepared; that Staten Island affords an opportunity for you to get away and do this research work and prepare the material that is necessary to be prepared, and quiet, for proper thought and consideration to be given to it without the many interruptions; and that California enables you to work throughout the winter without the physical handicaps that you would have in the east. And, above all this, the manifest blessing of the Lord upon the tremendous amount of work that has been turned out under this arrangement is of itself sufficient answer to the foul charges made by this man. The Lord himself has blessed it and manifested His approval on the setup as it exists, and if Salter were not blinded to all honesty, justice and common decency, he would include these known facts in his letter, that the brethren might get a more accurate picture of the true situation.
His reference to your cars at Brooklyn and San Diego is similarly misleading. In the first place, he knows that these cars were not purchased by yourself or with the Society's resources, but were a present to you. In the second place, he does not tell the friends that this car is used in Brooklyn in the service when you are away.
His reference to the Society's resources is devilish in itself, because it is such a deliberate misrepresentation of facts that he is familiar with. The man knows he is lying and creates a false impression when he presents it the way he does. He refers to the fact that there is a difference between the cost of production of the literature and the amount at which the companies receive the literature, but he does not say that well over fifty percent of the literature placed is placed by pioneers at less than cost of production. He does not say that a very large percentage of this literature is shipped to foreign countries at even less than cost of production. He does not remind the friends of the thousands upon thousands of dollars that are spent every year on broadcasts and for the recorded programs on the different stations throughout the world. Nor does he call attention to the thousands more that are given to pioneers in convention allowances and other provisions each year, nor the thousands that are sent throughout the earth to foreign lands to extend the Kingdom work in these places which are not self-sustaining. His letter implies that the difference in these amounts is something that you personally receive and use for your own pleasure, despite the fact that he knows that all monies received by the Society are received by the treasurer, banked by the treasurer, and that you could not, even if you wanted to, draw a personal check upon them.
If Salter were really halfway honest and wanted to give the brethren an accurate picture he would give them these facts; but that would not suit his purposes or the purposes of his father, and, as a willing tool, he confines his remarks to the limitations placed upon him to advance the interests of his Satanic majesty.
I am surely thankful to the Lord that during the past twelve years I have been enabled to be in a position to know the true facts regarding these situations, although even without that knowledge there would be no justification for accepting Salter's vilification of yourself.
The Lord's blessing upon the Kingdom service throughout the earth during the past twenty-odd years that you have served as president of the organization is the greatest proof, of course, of His favor and blessing, but this willful and deliberate misrepresentation of facts with such devilish ingenuity, which I know to be false, established beyond any shadow of doubt in my mind that the other things he brings up in his letter, which I do not happen to be familiar with, are just as false and misleading and instigated by the Devil for the purpose of opposing the Lord and the advancement of His organization.
Relative to his "crackpot" theories on our Lord's return and the resurrection of the saints, and Armageddon: These are not worthy of receiving any consideration. Anyone who has read The Watchtower during the past fifteen or more years will readily see that his play on words to set aside the mass of Scriptural evidence is worse than childish and is nothing but the babbling of one who, if he ever had any truth in him, has now turned into darkness.
The mass of evidence appearing in the parables of the "Pounds", "Talents," "Wise and Foolish Virgins," "Sheep and Goats," Lord's Coming to His Temple, in "Birth of The Nation", revealing the two organizations, and, in fact, all the Kingdom literature, up to and including the "Joseph" articles and "Song of the Harlot", so definitely repudiates the position taken by Salter and his associates that anyone with the mind of the Lord will have no trouble in discerning the truth on this matter. But the colossal audacity of the man is manifest in expecting you to set aside the columns of The Watchtower, which the Lord is using to bring forth such vital truth as contained in the "Joseph" articles, "Malachi," "Song of the Harlot," and devote its pages to the discussion of his theories on Armageddon and the Lord's return. I and all the rest of the Lord's people truly thank the Lord that you have the vision, courage and uncompromising devotion to the Lord that will not consider such a compromise under any circumstances.
I feel better that I have gotten this off my chest, and I want you to know that I am convinced that the Lord's people throughout the earth appreciate your loyalty and devotion to Him and His cause and that such inconsistent vilification and misrepresentation as Salter and his associates distribute only more clearly manifest your true integrity and devotion to the Lord and His cause.
May Jehovah continue to preserve and direct you in the vindication of His name and to the comfort and aid of His people in this great battle that we are privileged to be in.
Your brother and fellow servant,

T. J. SULLIVAN.

41

If Adam did not sin, would humans have lived forever on earth?

by jwfacts in

the new testament talks consistently of a heavenly hope, not an earthly one and the idea that humans are to live forever on earth is not supported scripturally at all.. however, what would have happened if adam and eve had not sinned.

the watchtower likes to make the point that it is only sin that caused adam and eve to die.

romans 5:12 that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.. what do christians believe regarding this scripture?

onacruse

As an aside, consider the consequences of unimpeded human population growth if Adam and Eve had not sinned.

By the WTS's own calculations, there would now be something on the order of 20,000,000,000 people on this planet:

*** rs p. 340 Resurrection ***
If billions are to be raised from the dead, where will they all live?
A very liberal estimate of the number of people who have ever lived on earth is 20,000,000,000. As we have seen, not all of these will be resurrected. But, even if we assume that they would be, there would be ample room. The land surface of the earth at present is about 57,000,000 square miles (147,600,000 sq km). If half of that were set aside for other purposes, there would still be just a little less than an acre (c. 0.37 ha) per person, which can provide more than enough food.

Perhaps that takes care of the food supply, but what about the complexity of the attendant infrastructure? Communication systems? Transportation? And, of course, the approx. 200,000,000 Kingdom Halls (@ 100 per KH).

If Adam and Eve had not sinned, this world would be a very cramped habitation.

11

Parking At The DC

by mrchuffster in

jw
friends

the parking at the district convention (uk) is free this year.

does anyone know why this has changed - has their scam been rumbled??.

mr c.

onacruse

bttt, to go along with WTWizard's thread about booking hotels through the WTS.

ithinkisee's link

http://www.thejehovahswitnesses.com/index.php/2007/03/13/tacoma-dome-parking-lot-scandal/

is still good.

19

Why is 537BCE important?

by whereami in

in very layman's terms can some help me why this date is important to the jw 607 theory?

i'm trying to show my wife that the wts is wrong on the 607 date.

i told her that no respected scholar agrees with that date.

onacruse

LOL w/ inkling! Yeah, my wife said the same thing!

whereami, in a nutshell: The WTS holds strong on 537, because they take literally the 70 years of desolation of Jerusalem, which then would have had to start in 607. 607 is critical because that's where the 2520 years of Daniel's "tree vision" (seven times, etc) would begin, leading down to 1914.

Of course, there are several leaps of faith required here, and includes a "minor" revision back in the 40s when the WTS suddenly realized (was inspired by God to see???) that they had forgotten to account for the year "0" in all their previous chronologies. But a bracket here, and a footnote there, and all was "OK" once again.

What's a mere year here or there, when one is handling the sacred secrets of God?

28

NWT translation of Daniel 1:2 and 607

by behemot in

do you know why the nwt starts verse 2 of daniel ch.

1 with the words "in time..." which are not in the original hebrew text nor in any of the english translations i checked?.

has it to do with supporting their 607 b.c.e.

onacruse

celebrated WT scholars

You still haven't answered my question about just who these "celebrated WT scholars" might be.

Of course, credentials are one thing, but recognized secularly-published articles would be invaluable evidence of just how "celebrated" these people might be.

19

Why is 537BCE important?

by whereami in

in very layman's terms can some help me why this date is important to the jw 607 theory?

i'm trying to show my wife that the wts is wrong on the 607 date.

i told her that no respected scholar agrees with that date.

onacruse

So, as long as the adjusted date is enclosed within square brackets and within the quotation followed by the source properly referenced then everything is OK.

Sure, why not? Every date that doesn't jive with what the WTS wants/needs it to be can therefore simply be bracketed, and then it's all "OK."

I'd like to be able to get away with that precious little trick when I balance my checkbook.

20

What was the unforgivable sin supposed to be?

by White Dove in

the wts never really mentioned what it was.

onacruse

The unforgivable sin, Biblically speaking, is anything that constitutes a sin against the holy spirit. But, like you say, there is no clear definition of what constitutes such a sin.

Therefore, as far as I've seen it said, the only unforgivable sin is one for which a person does not seek forgiveness. For example:

*** g94 11/8 p. 19 Have I Committed the Unforgivable Sin? ***
The fact that you feel hurt and distressed over your misconduct, however, indicates that you have not committed an unforgivable sin.

6