Posts by Cygnus
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12Stafford Discusses Calgary Case
by AMNESIAN inposted by gregstafford on wed - jun 26 - 02:38am:
http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index2.cgi?frames=yes&board=main&mode=current&message=2277
in response to amac's question i have provided some details below.
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109
Does being called an 'apostate' upset you?
by wholewheat indo all of you ex-jehovah's witnesses get upset when you are called an apostate?
you all call each other apostates, so why should you all get upset if i call you apostates?
if you don't like being called 'apostate', what title would you prefer?
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Cygnus
I called Naeblis an apostate to his face today, and he threatened to punch me in the face, but I ducked skillfully under his blow, leaping nimbly aside, and he forgot about it and ordered another beer.
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53
What Would You Have Done?
by Dutchie inthere was a middle-aged woman in our kingdom hall who was a long time pioneer.
she was a very warm and loving woman and so when she announced her plans for a family vacation one year some of us got together and took up a little collection so that she would have some extra money to spend.
after all, she was working hard for jehovah and werent we supposed to show our appreciation?.
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Cygnus
What would I have done?
Dropped the cash until the contribution box of course.
I certainly wouldn't post anecdotes about how honest I always am when it comes to money.
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WORLD OF LIES COMING UNRAVELED
by You Know insome historians date the beginning of the end of the soviet empire to the chernobyl disaster, for the reason that for several days after the explosion, as the radioactive cloud floated quietly over europe, the soviet government said nothing to warn people of the dangers that may have minimized some of the exposure.
it ruined their credibility, from which they never recovered.
presently, the whole capitalist system has an even worse credibility problem.
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Cygnus
What I find most disturbing about YK's post is his comparison to the events after Russell's death. The Society for many years after Chuck assumed room temperature strongly maintained that Russell was the wise slave of Matthew 24:45 and that anyone who strayed from his teachings were the apostates. YK has been told this many times in the past and yet he continues to post wrong information. Such intellectual dishonesty, in my opinion, casts doubt on everything he says.
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95
Top STUPID criticisms of the WTS
by JanH inthere are certainly enough valid criticisms of the wts and the jw religion, but a significant number of often-repeated criticisms of the religion are, imnsho, just ludicruous and serves to take attention away from the real issues.
significant problems with the wts includes, but are not limited to, the shunning policy, the blood issue and of course the corporate policy of hiding child molestors.. here is a list of criticisms of the wts that i find particularly annoying to see:.
russell was a freemason (or, even worse, the wts is part of some other large-scale conspiracy like the illuminati).
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Cygnus
Fark,
Russell derived his chronology from the Bible (or, borrowed it from Barbour who derived it from the Bible). He used pyramids much later to support his Bible chronology. Yet at least once a week I run into a JW opposer who argues that Russell got his chronology solely from pyramids.
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Top STUPID criticisms of the WTS
by JanH inthere are certainly enough valid criticisms of the wts and the jw religion, but a significant number of often-repeated criticisms of the religion are, imnsho, just ludicruous and serves to take attention away from the real issues.
significant problems with the wts includes, but are not limited to, the shunning policy, the blood issue and of course the corporate policy of hiding child molestors.. here is a list of criticisms of the wts that i find particularly annoying to see:.
russell was a freemason (or, even worse, the wts is part of some other large-scale conspiracy like the illuminati).
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Cygnus
Amen and Amen Jan.
I would add to the faulty list of critics' arguments:
Trinity -- whether Jesus is a false god or a true god, and comparisons of John 1:1 to those scriptures in Isaiah and Deuteronomy where God asserts that he is and there is no other god.
That Russell taught that Jesus would show up in 1914 and when he did not he then said that Jesus really did only invisibly.
That Russell derived his chronology and eschatology from pyramids.Only 144,000 JWs will survive Armageddon.
That JWs are constantly waiting for the next person to shun so they can feel good about being such righteous people.
The Bible says nothing about organized worship.
Edited by - Cygnus on 25 June 2002 21:25:23
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44
MORE ANSWERS TO 65 QUESTIONS: 11-21
by You Know in11. since the wts claims "apostolic succession", can it trace its roots all the way back to christ (mt 16:18)?
if so, who was it that "passed the torch of god's spirit" to c. t. russell when he founded the organization?
what was the name of this individual or individuals?.
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Cygnus
YK,
1 - True, the WTS does not claim apostolic succession. But they do claim that a close-knit band of anointed worshippers have comprised an unbroken succession of the faithful slave class. You did not address the meat of the issue, which is: who were these anointed worshippers of Jehovah prior to Russell in the 19th century?
2 - You did a good job dealing with Deuteronomy, but you leave out the fact that the term "god" in scripture is a term of authority. Moses, kings, judges, even Satan are called "god." Jesus derives his authority or godship from Jehovah.
3 - I believe the issue being raised is that it is difficult to say one aspect of the 144,000 is literal (the number) and one is figurative (their identity and origin).
4 - Changes since Russell's day include the scope of the ransom, the destiny of the great crowd, the importance of character development, the issue of universal sovereignty, the Abrahamic promise and the restoration of Israel, and of course the authority of the WTS. Big changes, these.
5 - No arguments here.
6 - How would you know how many are DF'd for apostasy and to what extent their disagreements with the WTS amount to? I would suggest the opposite of what you claim is true. Most ex-JWs were stumbled over one or two things, not the whole kit and kabootle.
7 - The two-class system is a difficult one for JWs to defend, especially when determining that few if any today are called to the heavenly calling. However, I do see reason for suggesting that some would hold higher positions of responsibility in the Kingdom. Yet, Eph 2:6 is speaking in past tense, and it seems to me that such verses which speak of a "heavenly hope" are not referring to people leaving this planet to go elsewhere. "heavenly" means godly, and the Jewish notion of a "heavenly hope" means simply that their reward or destiny is based or stored up in heaven, but will manifest itself on earth. (the New Jerusalem descends from heaven, Abraham's destiny was for a heavenly city as per Hebrews).
8 - Hard to argue with you here since the Bible has so many different statements about God's people and their struggles that applications are plentiful.
9 - Trinitarians do believe that Jesus is Son of God. You didn't say what Thomas might have been getting at other than to say 'apparently Jesus knew and that is good enough.
10 - I think the NT is pretty clear that Christ would return literally and visibly (some statements are obvious exaggerations). Matthew does not clearly define what that sign is, and so any interpretation is speculation.
11 - I think it is probably not a good idea to base doctrines on the book of Revelation. When I read the gospels, I don't see any indication that Jesus thought or taught that anybody would go to heaven (Matthew 5:5). Paul never made any such explicit statements. And certainly nothing that occurred at Pentecost 33 would have changed anyone's minds that their destiny was to be in heaven. In that light I struggle to see anything in Revelation that says anybody should be there after a human existence except in highly figurative passages such as serving him day and night in his spiritual temple.
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Heavenly Hope
by cyrano inthe watchtower teaches only a few have the heavenly hope.
men of old such as abraham will supposedly be raised from the dead and live on earth.
yet, hebrews tells us these men actually had a heavenly hope.
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Cygnus
Holy smokes! Contact Watchtower Headquarters ASAP! They somehow missed those verses!!!!
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Family Death. Another one bites the dust/Bflo NY
by LDH infirst of all, if you are offended by me saying "another one bites the dust," my apologies.. i just can't think of better words for what happens when some one dies after they have sold their soul to a printing company.. my uncle tom passed away yesterday morning in buffalo ny.
he was very ill, confined to a wheelchair for the last 10-15 years of his life.
he had ms.. tom married my aunt about 18 years ago.
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Cygnus
I live in Buffalo. Don't think I knew Tom though.
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7
I CONTRIBUTED TO LYNDON LAROUCHE
by Cygnus ina funny looking and funny sounding man was standing at a street intersection hollering about how john ashcroft must be brought down, and that the man who will save us all is lyndon larouche.
he was wearing a placard that said down with ashcroft -- bring in larouche.. for a dollar's contribution, i received two copies of larouche's may 1st washington d.c. seminar and the june 10th edition of the new federalist.. this man has the truth and even though there is no jehovah and you know is wrong about armageddon we need to get behind larouche it is the only way we can save ourselves from ourselves do it now give him your money make him president bring about positive change for the future!!!!!!
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Cygnus
A funny looking and funny sounding man was standing at a street intersection hollering about how John Ashcroft must be brought down, and that the man who will save us all is Lyndon LaRouche. He was wearing a placard that said DOWN WITH ASHCROFT -- BRING IN LAROUCHE.
For a dollar's contribution, I received two copies of LaRouche's May 1st Washington D.C. seminar and the June 10th edition of The New Federalist.
THIS MAN HAS THE TRUTH AND EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO JEHOVAH AND YOU KNOW IS WRONG ABOUT ARMAGEDDON WE NEED TO GET BEHIND LAROUCHE IT IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SAVE OURSELVES FROM OURSELVES DO IT NOW GIVE HIM YOUR MONEY MAKE HIM PRESIDENT BRING ABOUT POSITIVE CHANGE FOR THE FUTURE!!!!!!!