Heavenly Hope

by cyrano 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • cyrano
    cyrano

    The watchtower teaches only a few have the heavenly hope.

    Men of old such as Abraham will supposedly be raised from the dead and live on earth.

    Yet, Hebrews tells us these men actually had a heavenly hope.

    HEB 11:11 By faith Abraham, even though he was past age--and Sarah herself was barren--was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

    HEB 11: 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country--a HEAVENLY ONE. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

    Opinions?

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Holy smokes! Contact Watchtower Headquarters ASAP! They somehow missed those verses!!!!

  • writerpen
    writerpen

    cyrano - this was the primary discovery for me last year when I was just leaving. In reading the King James version on my own, I noticed this very contradiction that you are pointing out. Needless to say, it was a very gratifying find. However, this not only shows their inacurate interpretation of the scriptures, but it also shows that their Bible was translated to fit their beliefs. The version that you quoted is like all other versions: "a heavenly one." However the New World Translation reads: "but now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven...." In looking at information in their literature several months ago about this idea of the faithful of old having a heavenly hope, they state that their hope is not in heaven, but in a place that "belongs" to heaven.

    *** w79 6/15 16-18 Resurrected-"Each In His Own Proper Place" *** 5 So Abraham had faith in the coming resurrection of the human dead under the kingdom of the Christ. Jesus Christ, whose own resurrection was foreshadowed by the figurative resurrection of Isaac, once said to Jewish descendants of Abraham: Abraham your father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced. (John 8:56) In harmony with Jesus words about Abraham, the father of Isaac and the grandfather of Jacob, we read:

    6 In faith all these died, although they did not get the fulfillment of the promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. . . . But now they are reaching out for a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven [the kingdom of the heavens with Christ enthroned in it]. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them.Heb. 11:13-16.

    7 Since God has made preparations for the long-dead Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, those ancient men of faith are sure to have a resurrection from the dead under the city, or government, in which the glorified Messiah, or Christ, rules. Jesus Christ himself pointed out that fact in a discussion with Jewish Sadducees, who did not believe in a resurrection for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He said: In the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels [not: are angels] in heaven. As regards the resurrection of the dead, did you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living.Matt. 22:30-32.

    P.S. Aren't they full of shit?

  • You Know
    You Know

    Your error is in assuming that because Abraham was waiting on God's heavenly kingdom that he had a heavenly hope as we commonly use that term today. That's not the case. In the context verse 13 of that 11th chapter plainly says that Abraham "did not see the fulfillment of the promises." What promises? That God would send a Messiah. When the Messiah arrived then those who were born by holy spirit actually had the hope of going to heaven to rule with Christ, and Jesus said that only those thus born could inherit that kingdom. But, Revelation likens God's kingdom to a city that comes down out of heaven. That was the heavenly city that Abraham was looking forward to, not that he would live in heaven, but in the symbolic city of God that comes down from heaven. That's why the last part of verse 16 says that God "has made a city ready for them." Revelation 21 reveals that the city itself is the 144,000. Since it is readied apart from Abraham, it is evident that Abraham is not part of the heavenly city, but merely an earthly resident of it once it descends from heaven.

    / You Know

    Edited by - You Know on 21 June 2002 9:8:22

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    The little Jehovah's Witness amature Bible and their poorly educated Watchtower pamplet writers have made several errors in how they translate and interpret these verses from Hebrews, as they do most of the rest of the Bible. It is a wonder they even believe in Jesus Christ, considering he gets barely an honorable mention in their silly comic book literature.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    HEB 11:16 Instead, they were longing for a better country--a HEAVENLY ONE. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

    Cyrano,

    Suggestions? Sure, to Hebrews the word Heaven was simply another expression for "God," "Authority, or rulership like a King" A better country would be one under Gods authority not mans. So this city would be a Godly place to live, unlike the present human conditions that existed for Sarah and Abraham. To think that heaven or heavenly means a place somewhere other than earth is a Watchtower blunder and another example that they do not understand scripture. Context determines what is meant and in this case the city would be here on earth as they would have expected for their children. Joseph

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    amature Bible and their poorly educated Watchtower pamplet writers have made several errors in how they translate and interpret these verses

    Amazing, your generosity amazes me. Errors? Deliberate falsifications is more like it!

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Amazing, you said

    It is a wonder they even believe in Jesus Christ, considering he gets barely an honorable mention in their silly comic book literature.

    What do you think about their book "The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived", the biography of Jesus that we studied ad nauseum in our book study meetings? At least in this book he gets a little more than honorable mention. I realize this is the exception rather than the rule.

  • Lieu
    Lieu

    That was THE best book ever written by the WBTS. (In ref: The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived)

    It was the only one that when I finished reading...that just plain made me happy!

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Ah yes, "The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived", the book that still doesn't use his name in the title.

    Several paragraphs had to be struck out due to "new light" on signs in the heavens, etc.

    Sure, he gets an honourable mention, in that publication, but it contains far more than just his life. It contains a pile of speculation and dodgy theology, too.

    Leaven is what leaven does...

    Arguably one of the best books was actually the "Commentary on James", the heritage of which is a story in its own right.

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