MORE ANSWERS TO 65 QUESTIONS: 11-21

by You Know 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • You Know
    You Know

    11. Since the WTS claims "apostolic succession", can it trace its roots all the way back to Christ (Mt 16:18)? If so, who was it that "passed the torch of God's spirit" to C. T. Russell when he founded the organization? What was the name of this individual or individuals?

    The Watchtower does not claim any "apostolic succession." The notion of an unbroken line of apostles from the time of Christ to the present is a fraudulent concept put forth by the Catholic Church. The Bible doesn't speak of any such thing. In fact, the apostle Paul foretold that after the apostles and stalwart men of the original congregations left the earthly scene that con men would inevitably infiltrate the organization and corrupt it from within and gain control. (Act 20:29-30) History verifies that that is exactly what happened, so that eventually the corrupt form of Christianity was fused with the political power of the Roman Empire to form the monstrosity we know today as Christendom. The prophets spoke about a restoration in connection with Christianity. If now Christianity is to be restored, that means that it must first be corrupted. That indicates that rather than an unbroken line of succession, there would instead be a revival and restoration of what was lost.

    12. The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as "... and the Word was WITH God, and the word was a god." How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god' if God says in Deut 32:39, "See now that I -- I am he, and there are NO gods together with me..."?

    Jesus is not a god in his own right. He is a god because Jehovah God made him such. The ancients at the time of Moses had all sorts of notions regarding the origins of the hundreds of various gods and goddesses that they worshipped. All of whom were at odds with the Hebrew God. In the verse that you quoted Jehovah went on to state: "And there is no one snatching out of my hand." The Scriptures elsewhere recognize that there are in fact other gods, so called, but Jehovah is stating here that compared to him they are as nonexistent. Certainly, Jesus would not be classed as an opposing deity that would be trying to snatch something from his Father, Jehovah. Elsewhere, Jesus said that he was in complete agreement with his Father on everything. Therefore, Jesus authority as lord is expressed in harmony with Jehovah's own Godship and sovereignty so that there is no distinction between the two. Like Jesus himself said: "The Father and I are one."

    13. The WTS teaches that the 144,000 of Rev 7:4 is to be taken literally. If chapter 7 of Revelation is to be taken literally, where then does the Bible say that the 144,000 will come from? See Rev 7: 5-8.

    Those same 144,000 kings and priests are spoken of in the 14 th chapter of Revelation as singing as if a new song, and it specifically states that no one could master that song except those 144,000. Turning to Revelation 5:9 it mentions that God selected his kings and priests from "every tribe and tongue and people and nation." Are these the same 144,000? Yes, because the verse says that they are singing a new song before God. So, there is a paradox. On the one hand, it says that this exclusive group of 144,000 is taken from all tribes and nations, but then the passage you noted says they are taken from the 12 tribes of Israel. The way this riddle is solved is by understanding the spiritual truth that Paul expressed; namely that he is a Jew who is one on the inside. In other words, there is such a thing as a spiritual Jew. Indeed, the Christian congregation of spirit anointed ones is the very Israel of God. Jesus referred to this when he told the Jews that the kingdom of God was "being taken from them and given to a NATION producing its fruit." Notice that Jesus called the congregation "a nation." Paul called it such in his closing remarks to the Galatians, where he said in verse 16: "peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God." Paul had spent nearly the whole letter of Galatians putting forth the point that the Jews were not God's organization any more, so it is not likely that we was referring to them as the "Israel of God." Furthermore, it should be noted that spiritual Israel was also founded upon 12 apostles, just as literal Israel was founded upon the 12 sons of Jacob. Thats why the Christian writer James greeted his anointed brothers by saying at James 1;1: "To the twelve tribes that are scattered about, greetings." There is therefore compelling reason to accept that the 12 tribes of Revelation are in reference to spiritual Israel and not the literal nation, which by the time Revelation was written had already been cast of by God anyway.

    14 .Since the WTS currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder, Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916-1942, how can you be sure that in 25 more years, the WTS won't reject the current president, Milton Henschel (1992-present), as they did Russell and Rutherford? What kind of confidence can you have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence - over 50% of the time they have existed?!

    Thats simply not true. The basic doctrines that were originally discovered and established by the Watchtower's Founder are still the core of our teaching. Our confidence is that our doctrinal foundation is soundly based upon God's word. The thing that has gotten us into trouble at times is erroneous interpretation of prophecy. But, prophecy is not necessarily doctrine and is much more subject to error and subsequent revision.

    15. If there is no conscious awareness after death, how could the "spirits in prison", who lived during the time of Noah, be preached to by Christ after His death (I Pet 3:18-20) and how could the good news be "declared even unto the dead" (I Pet 4:5-6)?

    You are assuming that the spirits in prison are the departed souls of dead humans, however, such is not the case. Consider these questions: Why does the verse speak of only those spirits who lived before the flood? Are we to assume that the departed spirits of those who died after the deluge are not in prison? Why would God lock them up anyway? It does not make any sense that God would incarcerate departed souls as if in a prison. The key to understanding that verse is found in the letter of Jude where verse six says: "And the ANGELS that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." Notice in that passage, that it is angels whom God has confined as if in prison. Furthermore Peter writes that God punished the ANGELS that sinned by throwing them into pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. So, Christ's preaching to the disobedient spirits has to do with the fact that after Jesus was resurrected, after he conquered the Devil by remaing faithful to God into death, that he thereafter served notice upon Satan's horde of wicked spirits that their doom was sealed.

    The dead spoken of in the 4 th chapter are those who are spiritually dead from God's standpoint, but who come alive by means of the truth of God when they here it. Paul made a similar expression in Ephesian when he said "you were at one time dead in your tresspasses, but now you have been made alive". Jesus similarly said "let the dead bury their dead," meaning that those who didn't follow Christ were dead from God's standpoint.

    16. Since the WTS has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their views on this, does this mean that all the former Witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted back into fellowship again? Were these ex-Witnesses in fact disfellowshipped for what is now taught as "the Truth"?

    I have never heard of anyone being disfellowshipped for such a thing. The vast majority of those who are disfellowshipped are those who commit adultery and fornication and various other sins. Typically those who are disfellowshipped for apostasy disagree on a broad range of issues and not some insignificant aspect of our teaching.

    17. If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Eph 4:4), instead of two?

    It is always good to consider the context when asking questions like this. In the letter of Ephesians Paul in fact verifies that God's purpose involves rewarding some people with everlasting life in heaven, and others with everlasting life on earth. Verse 10 mentions that God purposes to gather both the things in heaven and the things upon the earth. Those heavenly things are those chosen ones of the 144,000 and Paul's letters are primarily directed to those that have the heavenly hope. For instance at Ephesians 2:6 it says: "He raised US up together and seated us together in the heavenly places in union with Christ." Notice that Paul refers to them as already occupying a heavenly place even though they are physically still upon the earth. That definitely establishes a distinction between the earthly and heavenly hope. So, since Paul was writing to those who were in the heavenly places, it was the one heavenly hope that he had in mind. However, because those with earthly aspirations are under the same administration mentioned in 1:10, and their hope is likewise bound up in Christ, it is not unreasonable to view the one hope as applying in a generic sense to all those who look to God for their salvation---whether earthly or heavenly.

    18. On pgs. 66, 69, 211, 423, 560, 648, and 719 of Jehovah's Witnesses--Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, reference is made to The Finished Mystery, which was the 7th of the Studies in the Scriptures series published by the WTS in 1917 (pg 66, 719), and was the major publication of the WTS at that time. On pgs. 88, 648, and 651, a picture of this book appears, complete with the winged disk symbol of the Egyptian sun god Ra on its front cover. Is it true that The Finished Mystery taught that Christ was the Almighty of Rev 1:8 (pg 15), that Christ established a "Church" (pg 17), that Christ returned invisibly in 1874 (pg 54, 60, 68). that the Holy Spirit has a personality (pg 57), that the great pyramid of Giza was God's stone witness and was used to predict the year of Armageddon (pg 60), that Armageddon would definitely occur in the spring of 1918 (pg 62), that Christ was crucified (pg 68), that Leviathan of the Bible refers to the steam locomotive (pg 85), and that Michael is the Pope of Rome and the angels are his bishops (pg 188)? According to "current" WTS teachings, Christ returned invisibly in 1914 and in 1918 chose the WTS as his earthly organization because they were the only ones teaching "the Truth". If this was so, then Jesus would have known the teachings of the WTS as put forth in The Finished Mystery, published in 1917. Do you really think that Jesus would have chosen an organization which taught so many things that were not correct according to "current" WTS teachings and are no longer taught as "the truth"?

    Succinctly, the answer to your question is yes. Consider the fact that the 3 rd chapter of Malachi foretells that the Messiah will come to his people for the purpose of serving as a refiners fire and as a laundrymen to cleanse and clarify Jehovah's people. Regardless of who you think Gods people are the fact is, whoever they are, from God's standpoint they are in need of cleansing and refining due to their error. Isaiah becomes even more graphic and says that at some point, those who are his witnesses will come to view their own teachings as if they were a womans menstrual cloth so as to discard them. So, the very fact that we have already discarded much of the baggage and uncleanness left over as residue as a result of our former association with Babylon the Great is indicative that we are following the spirit of the truth.

    19. In Jn 20:28, John refers to Jesus in Greek as "Ho kyrios moy kai ho theos moy". This translates literally as "the Lord of me and THE God of me". Why does Jesus, in Jn 20:29, affirm Thomas for having come to this realization? If Jesus really wasn't the Lord and THE God of Thomas, why didn't Jesus correct him for making either a false assumption or a blasphemous statement?

    We would caution the reader not to read too much into Thomas exclamation as if to infer that Thomas imagined that Christ was the Almighty God Jehovah. If there is any confusion, it is cleared up two verses down where John wrote: "But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that because of believing, you may have life by means of his name." Since, as you noted, Jesus did not correct Thomas, evidently Jesus knew what Thomas meant, whereas, now, because of the confusion of Trinitarian dogma, it is less clear in the minds of some that Jesus is the Son of God and that Jehovah is Jesus' Father.

    20. If Christ will not have a visible return to earth, then how will he be seen by "ALL the tribes of the earth" (Mt 24:30), and by "EVERY eye" (Rev 1:7) when he returns? How can Christ "APPEAR" a second time (Heb 9:28) if he will not have a visible return to earth?

    You neglected to quote the entire verse at Matthew 24:30, the first part of which reads: "Then the SIGN of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation." So, it is some sort of miraculous manifestation of Christ's presence, a sign, that the nations will be forced to "see," and not the literal form of the Son of man. Such a thing is not possible anyway. If you recall, Paul had a close encounter with the glorified Christ, the only human ever to do so I might add, but the point is, that Paul was blinded from Christ's glory for several days. That gives us some idea of the glory of the Son of man and why it is that the nations will not literally see him.

    21. In Rev 19:1, where does it say that the great crowd will be?

    A great crowd is simply an unnumbered group and not necessarily specifically referring to the great crowd that survives the tribulation. The fact is that there are two great crowds spoken of within that span of verses. The first great crowd spoken of are apparently the angels in heaven. The second mention of a great crowd are those upon the earth, those who are gathered to survive the tribulation. If they were the same crowd it would certainly be redundant to introduce them twice in the same span of verses. Interestingly, the second great crowd are speaking of the marriage of the Lamb as witnesses of the event, and not as participants. If they were in heaven, they would be part of the Lamb's bridal organization, but as it is they are merely praising God for the arrangement but not actually part of it.

    / You Know

    Edited by - You Know on 24 June 2002 11:32:10

  • You Know
    You Know

    Forgot to give the link to the 65 questions.

    Here it is>>> http://www.webshowplace.com/question/65quest.html

    / You Know

  • SusanHere
    SusanHere

    Pathetic!

    Thank you for reminding me once again, with such incredible clarity, how blessed I am to have escaped the snare of JW-ism and how sorry I am for my sister who was not so lucky. Though I do not attempt to destroy the belief she has in the JW doctrines, your posting has shown -- once again -- that I don't need to worry. For now being a JW is meeting some need she has. When Christ returns to earth, all manmade doctrines will be a thing of the past. I can see Him now, rolling his eyes, shaking his head slowly, and muttering, "I can't believe you managed to twist even such SIMPLE doctrines!"

    Susan

  • You Know
    You Know

    Susanhere

    If I am in error, surely someone will set me straight. As it is, this forum is supposedly dedicated to discussing these things, but the silence of my opposers speaks with "incredible clarity" as to the complete impotence of the apostate to offer any sort of reasonable rebuttal. / You Know

  • hannibal
    hannibal

    Did Russell beleive in 144,000?

    To me thats a major doctrine, when did that change and why?

  • You Know
    You Know

    Did Russell beleive in 144,000?

    Yes, he did. But, they also thought at the time that the great mutitude of Revelation 7:9 also had a heavenly hope, that they made up some sort of secondary kingdom in heaven. Now, of course, we realize that the great crowd survives the great tribulation and remains upon the earth. / You Know

  • Naeblis
    Naeblis

    Of course. But the core doctrine stayed the same. lol

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Perhaps this thread should be entitled:

    MORE OF MY OPINIONS TO 65 QUESTIONS
    HS
  • You Know
    You Know
    Perhaps this thread should be entitled: MORE OF MY OPINIONS TO 65 QUESTIONS

    Or, I could just as easily re-title it: Apostate Dubs silenced. LOL / You Know

  • hannibal
    hannibal

    Is this not a major change?

    I guess its all relitive,a matter of opinion, but I feel this is a major change.

    Also, u did not answer when this changed and why.

    I dont remember any refrence to a second heavenly hope, but that

    when the anointed were filled (144,000)armagedon would come.(1914)

    This changed in the 30's when they were realizing this wasnt

    going to fly to much longer.......errrr I mean by holy spirit.

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