Inquisitor

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Posts by Inquisitor

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  66

  Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

  by kojo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have read many posts on here and on other websites from people who were brought up or became immersed in a particular religion or belief system, who later ,often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in god at all.

  this often puzzles me because i wonder if people who reject a belief in god because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting god or just a man-made organization which claims to be god's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.. i was raised in a presbyterian church which is about as traditional and conservative as you can get and my image of god was molded by that belief.

  i saw the services and people there as dead basically.

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  Inquisitor

  Do I get a badge or something? Is it like, the equivalent of becoming an unbaptized publisher?

  Well, did you get anything tangible from the WTS when you became an unbaptized publisher?

  INQ
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  66

  Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

  by kojo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have read many posts on here and on other websites from people who were brought up or became immersed in a particular religion or belief system, who later ,often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in god at all.

  this often puzzles me because i wonder if people who reject a belief in god because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting god or just a man-made organization which claims to be god's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.. i was raised in a presbyterian church which is about as traditional and conservative as you can get and my image of god was molded by that belief.

  i saw the services and people there as dead basically.

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  Inquisitor

  Perry,

  My statement highlights the inability of even smart people to explain how a world without the possibility of evil could ever be considered free. Could you explain that? If someone can't explain it; why blame God for something that is a requirement for what people desire?

  Who has ever denied that evil is unavoidable in this world? The problem is not in the presence of evil, but the presence of a God in light of evil. Natural disasters, genocides, rising petrol prices... How could a *righteous* God stand by and watch these things march a long and settle in its own time? Is ANYTHING worth such misery? I watched a clip from South Park last night where one of the characters, who was lying in hospital, was read the story of Job. His conclusion was "What sort of God would go all the way just to prove a point to the Devil?". Chew on that for a sec.

  If God exists, it is He who gave us free will and it is He who allows Evil to exist. It is hardly finger-pointing from humans that makes Him responsible for evil in our world. He just IS BY DEFAULT! He is the idle Almighty, for crying out loud. You shy away from what you must perceive is blasphemy, yet the rest of us will not hold back from stating the obvious truth.

  God said that he made the earth for humans and their desendants. In other words he placed the earth under their limited jurisdiction and limited authority. It is not a stretch for me to imagine that he would simply back off after the Fall, having done so natural forces simply follow the laws of physics sometimes tragically.

  Moving on to Romans 8... I agree that when the commands in Genesis were utterred, man had limited dominion of the earth. I'd imagine that it logically refers to expansion of the Garden and taking care of the animals. I do not see an implicit gift to Adam of the power over tectonic plates (earthquakes, volcanoes) or over the movement of the winds (weather). Nothing in the scriptures suggests that Adam was given any such supernatural powers. That has and will always be the jurisdiction of God, if He exists.

  So I see no reason to blame Adamic error for the natural catastrophes we witness today. If God can't prevent a tsunami, it is no wonder He wasn't around when they gassed millions of Jews. You seem to make light of this burning evidence against a loving God by implying that people who wouldn't commit to belief expect too much in terms of security. If you do not have the answers for why Evil exists, on what basis do you expect people to believe in a caring God? An emotional high?

  The absence of answers may sit well with you because your faith is bereft of logic and facts. This is not my slur on your faith. You said so yourself "I don't need logic, a religion, or special training or education to do it." But for the rest of us, it is not a question of costs, it is a question of plausibility.

  I do not know what you meant by people who obey laws are cursed and how that is relevant to the causes of natural disasters.

  It seems like to me that some folks want a guaranteed risk free relationship before they'll decide to "believe God". I never would have gotten anywhere with my wife if I placed these kinds of requirements on her as we dated...Why would it be any different with God?

  Such a simplistic metaphor. You forget that:

  1) Your wife is not invisible

  2) She didn't commission the writing of a biography that is filled with literary inconsitencies.

  3) She is not by default held responsible for all the Evil in this world (at least I hope not)

  With these major differences poking out at us, how can you possibly draw a comparison between accepting God and accepting the woman who is now your life partner?

  INQ
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  10

  Repartee for "Jehovah Will Take Care of It"

  by Inquisitor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i really hate it when my folks use the line: "leave it to jehovah.

  he will take care of (insert organizational failure here).

  we just do our part.

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  Inquisitor

  I really hate it when my folks use the line: "Leave it to Jehovah. He will take care of (insert organizational failure here). We just do our part." They know their pacifism is a gamble for it would mean allowing an obvious wrong to perpetuate in the cong. But they choose to do nothing for they were programmed that way.

  Have any of you used a great come-back line when you heard this annoying clone-speak? Do share.

  INQ
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  66

  Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

  by kojo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have read many posts on here and on other websites from people who were brought up or became immersed in a particular religion or belief system, who later ,often because of bad experiences with their religion, went to the opposite extreme of not believing in god at all.

  this often puzzles me because i wonder if people who reject a belief in god because of the hypocrisies they experienced in their former belief really are rejecting god or just a man-made organization which claims to be god's spokesman and has shown to be anything but.. i was raised in a presbyterian church which is about as traditional and conservative as you can get and my image of god was molded by that belief.

  i saw the services and people there as dead basically.

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  Inquisitor

  I think volcanoes and tsunamis are on the "to do" list, right after God's family is fully revealed and evil and freedom are reconciled.

  How convenient. God's explanation is on hold until further notice. Until then preacher boy mocks those who are too *smart* to accept his mute God.

  Instead of quoting Romans 8, why don't you tell us what "the whole creation" refers to? Man? Animals? Freakish weather? Movement of tectonic plates? If it refers to all of the above, how did the Adamic sin trigger such universal degradation? (See katiekitten's post)

  INQ
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  9

  Sewing Seeds on Saturday Morning

  by Carmel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while working at one of my rental units this morning hooking up a pressure washer to wash down the house, who should stroll up behind me but three dubbies passing out invitations to the district convention.

  the oldest, bout 60ish asked me if i lived here or was "just working".

  i told him "neither, i own the place"!

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  Inquisitor

  Darn! And here I was thinking this was a thread on reproductive activity on a Saturday morning!
  
  wINQ
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  34

  Meddling mother

  by meems1000 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've posted a few times on this site but really just like to read the posts.. i wanted to know if anyone can tell me about a book for teens that the dubs have.

  my mother gave it to my 13 year old son and i'm really angry.

  i have made it very clear i want nothing to do with those people and do not want my children exposed to it.

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  Inquisitor

  I agree with elatwra and oldflame, meems1000. Instead of working out how to deal with your mother, perhaps it would be a smarter move to educate your kids about the religion. There is nothing wrong with exposing them to facts about the religion, especially if it first comes from you. Your mother has already beaten you to it. Time to go on the offensive, not defensive.

  Don't let your Mum make you out to be the evil controlling one. Expose JWism for what it is. But do it gradually so you don't freak out the kids. Drop a hint here, a hint there. Point out what you felt were ludicrous principles in the Young People Ask book (If you need some pointers, start a new thread titled "Why I Shouldn't Take the YPA Book Seriously").

  If you can convince your kid to wanna throw the YPA book away himself, you've already won this first battle.

  INQ
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  42

  Have you heard this one-the end is very close, maybe 2 years

  by sspo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my good witness friend was trying to encourage me spiritually and this is what's being speculated among the witnesses.

  how long was adam alone before eve was created, well at least 31 years so far.

  1975 was the end of 6000 years of man's existence.. from 1975 to 2006, it is 31 years.. when was jesus ministry over?

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  Inquisitor

  How long was Adam alone before Eve was created, well at least 31 years so far

  That means there is a good chance that Eve was created after 33 years after Adam

  So was it 31 years or 33 years? Is the Big A scheduled to arrive in 2006 or 2008? Can't Jehovah make up His mind?

  How did we arrive at 31 yrs or 33 yrs to begin with? I don't recall reading either period in Genesis.

  INQ
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  20

  Which flavor of "Christendom" did you think was most demonized? (when a JW)

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i used to feel it was the catholic religion because of all its rituals.

  then i felt it was the latter day saints with all thier "personal testimony" and "prophet" doctrines.

  finally, after reading about the watchtower's history i've settled on the view that they are all equal.. how did you feel about it when you were a witnoid?.

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  Inquisitor

  Wasanelder Once,

  I suppose that depends on what tone of meaning you attach to "demonize"

  If you mean which denomination was most maligned by the WTS, I guess you could say it was the Catholic church. But I suspect that the reason for this has more to do with the fact that 1) it has the longest history and thus longer record of errors to pick and choose from 2) there is a plethora of criticisms against the Catholic church written up by both professional and amateur spiteful (rightfully so?), evangelical Protestants. WTS only had to borrow these ideas and publish them as their own

  If you mean which denomination was most feared by the WTS, I suspect it would have to be the Pentecostals. Claims of a higher emotional experience (i.e. true happiness, a connection with God etc etc) and of miraculous healing feats must be a constant source of ire that needed discrediting by the GB.

  That's my two cents.

  INQ

  p.s. has anyone told you that your avatar gives some people the goosebumps ?
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  5

  Venus Fly Trap creationist thread...

  by james_woods in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just saw a "gardening by the yard" on hgtv (a home-improvement channel we have here in texas).

  it was all about carnivorous plants.

  one thing which struck me was the potting instructions - just plant them in a non-nourishing sand or vermiculite which can hold moisture.

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  Inquisitor

  Doesn't the Bible also present plants as being created before "flying creatures", presumably including insects? So until the big J got around to creating flies, I wonder what his Venus Bug-To-Be-Named-Later Trap was supposed to eat?

  Quick thinking Almost Atheist! That was a good point on the biblical chronology of creation. And yes, this is an interesting thread. Though I wouldn't put it above the creationists to stomp in here, bark an explanation and expect us to nod our heads to it.

  INQ
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  30

  Why Joseph did not bonk Mrs Pot

  by Inquisitor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts loooves to harp on the story of joseph fleeing from potiphar's wife (see this week's watchtower article).

  it provides a most convenient moral story with which to command young people .

  i've often wondered if joseph rejected mrs potiphar for reasons other than chastity.

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  Inquisitor

  But the Witnesses don't claim that the story is about chastity per se.

  True, at times the WTS uses this story as an example of God's implicit laws (i.e. Joseph knew not to fornicate before the Mosaic Laws were made). But more frequently, JWs reflect on this account as a shining lesson of sexual abstinence.

  It doesn't concern me that obedience is linked with chastity, we're questioning the relevance of this story as a lesson in chastity.

  INQ