No club is unconditional, it’s a matter of degree. I am in some groups where you can be excluded or at least ostracised for opposing trans ideology or opposing abortion. There are other groups that exclude you for taking the opposite view on those issues. Karl Popper argued that complete toleration is self-destructive and that democracies need to be intolerant of ideologies that threaten its survival. There are no absolutes, there is no such thing as unconditional. But I do appreciate that the degree of control, censorship, and surveillance among JWs is greater than many other groups and many find it something along the range of stifling to completely intolerable. If you happen to agree with JW leadership on most things it can be worth biting your tongue over a few things you don’t agree with. If you think God is in control of the organisation overall then it can even be perceived as the loyal and right thing to do. It’s a personal choice.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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Reddit thread on convention video urging cutting off contact with Faders
by LongHairGal ini just read this.
don’t know if anybody here has seen the video.. the intended result of this is to obviously scare ‘faders’ out of the shadows.
now, they are being threatened with loss of association with their loved ones and friends.
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Predictions for the next decade?
by jehovaxx inas it’s nearly the new year my prediction over the next decade or so will see the sense of urgency dwindle.
then some huge huge changes.
for example by 2034 in a decades time, they will have address the 1914 issue and will come out and say we can’t be dogmatic.
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slimboyfat
Different religious groups have different ways of counting membership. JWs have one of the strictest measures of any religious group and the Mormons are at the opposite end of the spectrum claiming many more members than reality. Scholars interested in establishing some sort of fair comparison between groups have used censuses to evaluate membership totals. The result in the table below compares the number of members claimed by the group compared with the academic estimate of “adherence” on the basis of census results.
The figure of 15 million for JWs makes sense because if asked to estimate the number who consider themselves to be JWs then a figure in between publisher number and the Memorial attendance sounds about right because many inactive JWs still consider themselves JWs but not everyone who attends the Memorial. The Mormon figure of 7 million also makes sense because it’s widely known the Mormon church grossly inflates their numbers by counting everybody they’ve ever baptised even though many of them never return to the church after rushed baptisms.
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Reddit thread on convention video urging cutting off contact with Faders
by LongHairGal ini just read this.
don’t know if anybody here has seen the video.. the intended result of this is to obviously scare ‘faders’ out of the shadows.
now, they are being threatened with loss of association with their loved ones and friends.
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slimboyfat
The Reddit post seems entirely misguided. The person in the video is not a “fader”. The whole point about being a fader was supposed to be that you fade away from the organisation without making a fuss. The person in the video is attempting to get the Witness to read anti-witness material. That’s not fading. The video is emphasising shunning and reporting apostates, it doesn’t relate to faders at all. Am I missing something?
I don’t support shunning “apostates” either, obviously, but we ought to be clear what we are talking about. People reading the thread without watching the video might take it at face value (as I did) that faders are subject to a new shunning initiative. The video doesn’t show that at all. If any quiet faders were panicked by the threads I don’t think you need be. -
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Reddit thread on convention video urging cutting off contact with Faders
by LongHairGal ini just read this.
don’t know if anybody here has seen the video.. the intended result of this is to obviously scare ‘faders’ out of the shadows.
now, they are being threatened with loss of association with their loved ones and friends.
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slimboyfat
I’ve just watched the video now for myself and I don’t think it’s aimed at faders or reinstates shunning in general. It is specifically against people who openly criticise the organisation so I don’t think it’s much of a reversal as that was presumably always the case even under the relaxed shunning rules. Plus it’s only a couple of minutes, unless they play it again and again at the meetings after the convention, many will probably glaze over it.
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consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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slimboyfat
Okay I’ve just watched the video now for myself and I don’t think it’s aimed at faders or reinstates shunning in general. It is specifically against people who openly criticise the organisation so I don’t think it’s much of a reversal as that was presumably always the case even under the relaxed shunning rules. Plus it’s only a couple of minutes, unless they play it again and again at the meetings after the convention, many will probably glaze over it.
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It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)
by Simon inuh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
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slimboyfat
Does the sign say “we love JWs”? What a joke. The only thing he loves is himself.
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consequences for going against the direction.
by jehovaxx inthere are no serious consequences for doubting the gb.
there are no consequences for going against the direction.
we can now celebrate anything.. what will happen if you take blood, celebrate xmas and birthdays ect?.
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slimboyfat
Apparently there’s a video at the summer convention that promotes shunning of faders who doubt the truth or even just faders in general. How does this sit with the instruction last year to relax the shunning? It doesn’t. Perhaps the old service department/writing department split is alive and well, the writing department relaxing shunning and the service department busy reeling it back in again. What a mess. Some Witnesses I know fully embraced the end of shunning. How will they react to the new shunning video? They’ll probably fall back in line, mostly. But it does occur to me that in a straight out argument between a JW arguing for less shunning and a JW arguing in favour of shunning, it’s somewhat easier to quote the words in print than it is to quote the subtext of a video to buttress your point. So if it comes to that the liberal JW may have the upper hand. But in terms of vibes the new shunning video probably sets many back, especially hardliners who enjoy the shunning anyway.
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Applying the facial hair change in New Order portrayals
by careful ini have a hard time watching the org's vids and reading the publications.
however, that's not the case with others here.
hence this post.
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slimboyfat
Ah, good question. I wasn’t looking out for that but I don’t think I came across any patriarch-in-the-new-system pictures. There were a few in their OT setting with big beards as ever, but pictures of OT figures in the new system are not as common in any case.
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Predictions for the next decade?
by jehovaxx inas it’s nearly the new year my prediction over the next decade or so will see the sense of urgency dwindle.
then some huge huge changes.
for example by 2034 in a decades time, they will have address the 1914 issue and will come out and say we can’t be dogmatic.
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slimboyfat
Why believe JW numbers? Because censuses confirm them and then some. Because academics have studied them and found them to be underestimates of JW numbers. Because I've seen attendances at various KHs and assemblies with my own eyes and they look similar to the 1990s.
They are probably short of elders and making efforts to boost numbers.
Adventists are indeed growing, they are one of the few churches that are growing. Most churches are declining severely. JWs are staying about the same in the UK or growing slightly because of immigrant largely from Africa. In other counties they are still growing. In a few countries they are declining such as Poland. Congregations may be closing in some places, a mixture of fewer numbers but also as a money saving exercise in some cases.
Check out this comparison of JWs, Mormons and Adventists here:
http://www.sdahistorians.org/uploads/1/2/3/6/12365223/lawson_2_reassessing_size.pdf
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Zechariah 12:10 Corruption in the NWT
by Sea Breeze inhere's a question for those who still support watchtower on this forum.
why did watchtower leave out the word "me" in zech.
zechariah 12:10 reads like this: .
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slimboyfat
What AI programme are you using out of interest?