Posts by slimboyfat

32

What Happens to Adam and Eve?

by Cold Steel in

in jw theology, what happens to adam and eve?

are they resurrected and become heirs to paradise on earth?

or will they become two of the heavenly class?

slimboyfat

Russell believed that god always intended the sin of Adam, it was part of his "Divine Plan of the Ages".

I have never seen this. Have you got a reference?

583

What is the purpose of life?

by slimboyfat in

while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

I just watched the video again. I have not read the book you mention, but I have read a book by Harris about free will and his "Letter to a Christian Nation". I didn't like either, in fact I'd say it's a case of I want the time back please.

A key quote in his speech there was his comment that, "some ideas just need to be excluded", or along those lines. What does he mean by that? Does he mean literally ban certain ideas? If so, we have a dictator. If not, if he simply means that we should all agree Ted Bumdy was bad - we do that already. We don't need science to tell us that. In fact it's not clear how science can tell us that.

Either Harris is saying that the idea that Bundy was good should be banned, which is ridiculous, of he is saying that we should all agree such an opinion is wrong, which is obvious. Most of what Harris says can similarly be divided into the obvious and the ridiculous.

583

What is the purpose of life?

by slimboyfat in

while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

slimboyfat

Viv you can add anything to any imaginary list you like as far as I am concerned. You never back up anything you say. If you ever make an actual argument in favour of any of the claims you make, there will be something to discuss.

583

What is the purpose of life?

by slimboyfat in

while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

slimboyfat

John Mann there was nothing wrong with your definition. Don't let Viv give you the run around. I think Cofty is correct positivists allow that logic can deliver some knowledge also, but this is limited. You're right that the main idea is that only science can deliver true knowledge. In previous conversation Cofty has claimed that science can even tell us the answers to ethical questions. It's a kind of madness. I realised later that this "science of ethics" was an idea that Sam Harris has tried to promote. He is completely barmy, and I think many are now seeing through him and how shallow his arguments are. And not just shallow but dangerous, with his "let's nuke the Middle East first" argument, and his support for Trump-style profiling and Muslim ban. If those are the ethical conclusions his "science" arrives at, he can keep it.

Here it is, positivism driven to its ultimate, and crazy, logical conclusion.

https://youtu.be/Hj9oB4zpHww

30

After 52 years a Watchtower slave 9/11 gave me the push I needed to get out.

by new boy in

jw
friends

i turned in my letter of disassociation on september 18, 2001 but it was 9/11 that showed me what the witnesses really feel about human lives and the future wished for.. i was in limbo after my wife of 27 years left me on july 30, 2001. she knew i wasn't buying the jw program anymore.

she told me she come back to me when "i got my head straighten out about god and the church".. so for 40 days i was in limbo.

i stopped going to meetings.

slimboyfat

I know people who went back to JWs after September 11th.

16

Publisher death nail.

by Chook in

i have done this exactly as quoted more than once.

i ask elder if it's better to hide serious sin or reveal, of course we know the answer.

then i ask them to explain elders book page 38 paragraph 19, which say it's sometimes ok for elder who has committed immorality and has kept it secret to continue serving as elder.

slimboyfat

It's crazy, hypocritical, and looks plain sneaky. But I guess it's just what happens when you have a group of people who take their own selection by "Holy Spirit" extremely seriously. They reason in their heads that Jehovah is in charge of the elders arrangement, and Jehovah doesn't make mistakes. So if it looks like an elder got away with something, then "logically" Jehovah must have allowed it to happen that way, because he doesn't want the elder removed.

47

New JW chain-email going around

by FaithfulBrother in

apparently, the society knows exactly when the great tribulation is going to break out, but they're only letting the public know through subliminal messages in their images.

here's a new chain letter that's being passed around between witnesses:.

(daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45).

slimboyfat

An elder actually pointed this out to me a few years ago. Not all of them, but comparing the Daniel book and the brochure, I think. It was all I could do to stop rolling my eyes.

182

Major congregational quake in Southern California

by Hecce in

this notice is not official yet and it should be confidential until released thru the proper channels.

a friend of mine told me about a huge elders meeting in southern california.

the subject was the relocation and dissolution of some congregations; it seems that this is the result of some project that has been going on for some time and is going to be implemented right now.. please let me know if this is happening all over the country?.

slimboyfat

I know this happened in Europe. A city with something like 18 congregations was consolidated into just a handful of Kingdom Halls. It caused a lot of disruption, breaking old friendships and making JWs travel a long way to the meetings. Now they are discussing re-opening a couple of Kingdom Halls. But the damage is alread done. I think numbers will be down because of this. Each time congregations are moved some marginal JWs take it as a cue to stop associating.

19

Why start preaching work in 1876? Something to ask JW's who are still in

by fedup in

we learn from the bible that the characters that preached doomsday messages, such as lot, noah, etc all got to see the result of the message they preached, we studied that the final judgement from god was seen by the preacher as well as the people that heard and ignored the message.

my point is this, it would have been ridiculous for noah to start preaching to people, put the fear of god in all the listeners that the flood is coming, build the ark and then as a result, nothing happens to them.

even if the flood would have happened later, let's say 50 years after noah and all the people that heard him have died from natural causes.

slimboyfat

I knew an old sister who was adamant Armageddon would come in 1999.

Her logic was that the Watch Tower was first published in 1879 and 1879 plus 120 years was 1999.

583

What is the purpose of life?

by slimboyfat in

while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

slimboyfat

Thanks for the answers.

I was at the Necropolis today. And the independence rally in George Square. "That's the reality, brothers and sisters", the speaker kept saying. Scots may recognise the speaker from the catchphrase.

It strikes me that I used to place lots of "purpose" brochures as a JW. We liked it because it posed more profound questions that the "require" brochure or the "paradise" tracts.

But what was the answer?

Many JWs might answer by talking about having eternity to develop talents, explore the planet and, who knows, maybe beyond. But is that really a purpose? It sounds more like retirement. Or rather, it sounds like retirement is imagined to be in a particular moment of late capitalism. Are JWs just baby boomers dreaming of the perfect retirement? Having babies or maintaining eternal marriages doesn't feature strongly in JW thought as it does in Mormonism.

If pushed JWs might add that endless fulfilling work and leisure is not actually the purpose of life. The real purpose is worshipping God. Sounds boring, but if you get a nice feeling in your heart when praying or singing you might imagine it would not be so bad. It's a bit like the Christians we made fun of, who looked forward to sitting on clouds, playing the harp, and praising God.

Besides I thought worshipping God continually was what the seraphs so were created for. That always sounded like a bum deal.

It strikes me that the mere existence of God does not prejudice the possibility of life having a purpose one way or another. The idea that there may be a God, but that life is nevertheless without purpose, is an under explored possibility. And isn't it just as wrong to assume that a universe without God is necessarily without meaning, as it is to assume that a universe with God must have some sort of meaning?

I was thinking all these sorts of things on the journey. And are not journeys the most meaningful thing in life? I prefer the train, but the bus can do. Car is not so good, if you are the driver. I mean it's great for leisure or for work, but not for purpose. I find. Even as a JW, I thought this poem came closer to delivering a meaning to life. (I know I am switching words from purpose to meaning here)

I want to quote the poem not because it contains the correct answer but first I want to wind down watching some YouTube videos and assess the current likelihood Trump will become president and end civilisation. Crichton Smith wrote it on the bus from Oban to Helensburgh, if there was such a bus.

Two Girls Singing by Iain Crichton Smith

It neither was the words nor yet the tune
Any tune would have done and any words.
Any listener at all.

As nightingales in rocks or a child crooning
in its own world of strange awakening
or larks for no reason but themselves.

So on the bus through late November running
by yellow lights tormented, darkness falling,
the two girls sang for miles and miles together

and it wasn't the words or the tune. It was the singing.
It was the human sweetness in that yellow,
the unpredicted voices of our kind.