Posts by slimboyfat

182

Major congregational quake in Southern California

by Hecce in

this notice is not official yet and it should be confidential until released thru the proper channels.

a friend of mine told me about a huge elders meeting in southern california.

the subject was the relocation and dissolution of some congregations; it seems that this is the result of some project that has been going on for some time and is going to be implemented right now.. please let me know if this is happening all over the country?.

slimboyfat

I know this happened in Europe. A city with something like 18 congregations was consolidated into just a handful of Kingdom Halls. It caused a lot of disruption, breaking old friendships and making JWs travel a long way to the meetings. Now they are discussing re-opening a couple of Kingdom Halls. But the damage is alread done. I think numbers will be down because of this. Each time congregations are moved some marginal JWs take it as a cue to stop associating.

19

Why start preaching work in 1876? Something to ask JW's who are still in

by fedup in

we learn from the bible that the characters that preached doomsday messages, such as lot, noah, etc all got to see the result of the message they preached, we studied that the final judgement from god was seen by the preacher as well as the people that heard and ignored the message.

my point is this, it would have been ridiculous for noah to start preaching to people, put the fear of god in all the listeners that the flood is coming, build the ark and then as a result, nothing happens to them.

even if the flood would have happened later, let's say 50 years after noah and all the people that heard him have died from natural causes.

slimboyfat

I knew an old sister who was adamant Armageddon would come in 1999.

Her logic was that the Watch Tower was first published in 1879 and 1879 plus 120 years was 1999.

583

What is the purpose of life?

by slimboyfat in

while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

slimboyfat

Thanks for the answers.

I was at the Necropolis today. And the independence rally in George Square. "That's the reality, brothers and sisters", the speaker kept saying. Scots may recognise the speaker from the catchphrase.

It strikes me that I used to place lots of "purpose" brochures as a JW. We liked it because it posed more profound questions that the "require" brochure or the "paradise" tracts.

But what was the answer?

Many JWs might answer by talking about having eternity to develop talents, explore the planet and, who knows, maybe beyond. But is that really a purpose? It sounds more like retirement. Or rather, it sounds like retirement is imagined to be in a particular moment of late capitalism. Are JWs just baby boomers dreaming of the perfect retirement? Having babies or maintaining eternal marriages doesn't feature strongly in JW thought as it does in Mormonism.

If pushed JWs might add that endless fulfilling work and leisure is not actually the purpose of life. The real purpose is worshipping God. Sounds boring, but if you get a nice feeling in your heart when praying or singing you might imagine it would not be so bad. It's a bit like the Christians we made fun of, who looked forward to sitting on clouds, playing the harp, and praising God.

Besides I thought worshipping God continually was what the seraphs so were created for. That always sounded like a bum deal.

It strikes me that the mere existence of God does not prejudice the possibility of life having a purpose one way or another. The idea that there may be a God, but that life is nevertheless without purpose, is an under explored possibility. And isn't it just as wrong to assume that a universe without God is necessarily without meaning, as it is to assume that a universe with God must have some sort of meaning?

I was thinking all these sorts of things on the journey. And are not journeys the most meaningful thing in life? I prefer the train, but the bus can do. Car is not so good, if you are the driver. I mean it's great for leisure or for work, but not for purpose. I find. Even as a JW, I thought this poem came closer to delivering a meaning to life. (I know I am switching words from purpose to meaning here)

I want to quote the poem not because it contains the correct answer but first I want to wind down watching some YouTube videos and assess the current likelihood Trump will become president and end civilisation. Crichton Smith wrote it on the bus from Oban to Helensburgh, if there was such a bus.

Two Girls Singing by Iain Crichton Smith

It neither was the words nor yet the tune
Any tune would have done and any words.
Any listener at all.

As nightingales in rocks or a child crooning
in its own world of strange awakening
or larks for no reason but themselves.

So on the bus through late November running
by yellow lights tormented, darkness falling,
the two girls sang for miles and miles together

and it wasn't the words or the tune. It was the singing.
It was the human sweetness in that yellow,
the unpredicted voices of our kind.

583

What is the purpose of life?

by slimboyfat in

while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

slimboyfat

While reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that JWs never really had a very good answer to that question. Because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in God you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in God your life has no purpose or meaning". I think that is a faulty analysis of the situation. Belief in God does not in itself give life meaning. Plus it assumes that life should or can have meaning. I won't dispute that or confirm it in this box.

I was going to write a longer post to explain what the meaning of life really is. But I got one of these nuisance commercial calls from India and I foolishly answered their survey questions which included whether I read the Times newspaper. At the same time I caught a Cubone that was running around. Anyway I have to leave in twenty minutes and I have to get ready, so I haven't got time to write the post I imagined writing around the meaning of life.

So if I could just put the question out there and see what there is. I'll maybe come back later with the correct answer. I resist passing judgement.

6

JW remark about blood transfusion

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

recent i had a conversation with an old jw friend.

he told me his mother rejected a blood transfusion in a critical fase, and survived it, and of course it's good to hear that she makes it good now.. what me triggered, was a remark he made about what the elder of the hospital committee told him.. this elder praised the mother of my old friend because of rejecting the transfusion.

the elder told them that most jehovah's witness in the netherlands take a blood transfusion when their life is at stake.

slimboyfat

A school friend's father was a colorectal surgeon. He told me that many JWs accepted he would "avoid" blood as best he could and only use it if life was in danger.

A sister in the congregation told me about a similar conversation she had with a surgeon when her non-JW husband needed surgery.

I vaguely remember academic data that also indicated a high level of noncompliance with the no blood policy. Predictably JWs have disputed it, if I remember right.

I think many JWs will say no to blood initially, but be prepared to accept if really necessary. I think that would have been my position even when I believed it. That assumes you're still awake and able to make the decision, of course.

There has also been the suggestion that in some countries the state insists on blood for minors and that JW parents are generally happy for that to happen because it absolves them of responsibility for the decision.

You certainly don't get stories in the WT or Awake! about abducting children from the hospital any more.

31

Big news from Kim and Mikey, they state in thier latest video proof the WT invested in the Nazi war machine!!

by Crazyguy in

this is big!

according to what they say if i'm correct an investigation was done back in 1998 in concerning what american companies invested money in to germany.

mike and kim state that a document they have attained shows a list of american firms that had invested into germany as late as 1943. on this list is non other then watchtower !!

slimboyfat

I would be surprised if they read that earlier thread but decided to run with the "story" anyway. I don't have a good impression of their output.

31

Big news from Kim and Mikey, they state in thier latest video proof the WT invested in the Nazi war machine!!

by Crazyguy in

this is big!

according to what they say if i'm correct an investigation was done back in 1998 in concerning what american companies invested money in to germany.

mike and kim state that a document they have attained shows a list of american firms that had invested into germany as late as 1943. on this list is non other then watchtower !!

slimboyfat

Whatever else you want to say about JWs many gave their lives opposing Nazism showing tremendous courage. Neither is it true that the organisation in any way collaborated with the Nazis. They opposed Nazism in print and in action since before Nazis took power. I find this topic not only wrong but distasteful.

44

The 1914 doctrine: How long it will last?

by opusdei1972 in

one hundred years have passed and the society still supports this lie, which of course, is the basis of their other lies, like that of the unfaithful and not discreet slave appointed in 1919. however, i wonder, what will happen after 50 years, when the overlapped generation will pass?.

and if you want, what will happen with this religion in 2100?, could it survive with the same lie??

?.

slimboyfat

You'd think they would drop it pretty soon. But for all their changes over the last few years, the current GB don't seem thoughtful or creative enough to build an alternative or to justify dumping one of their central teachings, Their dismal performance with "this generation" shows they are not up to the task. So they may just stick with 1914 long after it's become patently repidiculous just because they can't think what else to do.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

slimboyfat

Your opening post did not ask how creationists would respond to origins of life research.

It asked how "theists" would respond, and speculated about possible "excuses" they would attempt to make.

Theism is defined as the belief that God exists, no more and no less.

Merriam-Webster
Theism: the belief that God exists or that many gods exist

Are you backtracking from saying that those who "believe that God exists" would have questions to answer? Are you now saying only that creationists would have questions to answer?

As for all the insulting comments I am not going to answer that, so you should give up trying to drag discussion down to that level. I am interested in ideas and viewpoints, not calling names.

9

Suggestions for books to read

by Truthexplorer in

i am just about finished 'out of the cocoon' (great book) and am looking for ex jw books to read.. so far i have read:.

crisis of conscience (brilliant/amazing).

in search of christian freedom (interesting).

slimboyfat

Apocalypse Delayed by James Penton (best up to date-ish history)

A People For His Name by Antony Wills (best not up to date history)

The Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonsson (more than just a refutation of 1914, an account of the GB's bloody mindedness)

The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses by Gary and Heather Botting (this book is over the top but good fun, it deserves more readers than it gets)

Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave by William Schnell (definitely over the top and a bit barmy, but it's a classic)

Visions of Glory by Barnara Harrison (an account of bethel in the early post-war years, plus a general history, feminist perspective)

Three Dissertations on the Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses by Greg Stafford (asks what can and can't be said as a JW in good standing - which proved not to extend to the contents of this book)

Watch How We Walk by Jennifer Lovegrove (fictional account of life as a JW)