I’d like to be a Reform Jehovah’s Witness, like how you get Reform Jews. The problem is few if any, either inside or outside the JWs, appear to be interested. But this might change!
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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49
How Long Will YOU Identify As A Jehovah’s Witness?
by minimus insome witnesses realize that they got into a religion and it turned out to be disastrous.
many decide they have to somehow get out.
some do it right away and others take longer.. where are you in your journey?
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108
New Upcoming Changes - No More Publisher Record Cards & Reporting Hours
by thedepressedsoul inpublisher record cards and reporting hours will be going away.
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coming soon.. made this post 4 years ago, it happened - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24020002/kingdom-consolidation-sales-coming-reliable-source.
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slimboyfat
careful that sounds like a very plausible explanation why Watchtower dropped charges - in order to avoid tax, because collecting tax would open them up to external scrutiny. I suppose that means they felt they had things they’d rather avoid having to justify or explain. That seems likely because an organisation so accustomed to secrecy may become complacent and become embroiled in dubious practices of various sorts. For instance external scrutiny may reveal that certain individuals or companies benefit financially from their relationship with Watchtower in ways that may appear unfair or borderline corrupt. Or other aspects of their operations they’d rather keep hidden I can’t even imagine, may be involved.
Even so, if their primary motive was to avoid the scrutiny that paying taxes would invite, I still think it is fair to say that Watchtower probably didn’t expect, and were unpleasantly surprised by the extent to which income from literature fell after they stopped charging. This is demonstrated by the tone of disappointment in the letter of 1990/1 about the fall in donations, and by the progressive cuts from the mid 1990s. Because for the first five years or so Watchtower continued publishing and expanding as before. It was as if they didn’t expect the change to result in a drop in income and they expected to carry on as before. It was around 1996 when cuts began, with one of the first signals being the switch from hardcover to paperback books. So presumably they coasted for five years or so on the basis of their accumulated funds. Then they sllowly began to tighten their belts in the late 1990s, until cutbacks reached a frenzy in the late 2010s.
I totally agree that stopping recording and collecting hours would be a hugely significant change, striking at the heart of JW culture, and it would be a much bigger than dropping the book study or the district overseer was.
And I agree there is a good possibility that the OP may have half a story correct, or the rumour has been slightly distorted at some stage, such that hours may be collected differently rather than abandoned altogether. In fact we can probably agree this is the most likely explanation, if there is substance to the rumour to begin with.
And yet, and yet. It may not be likely, but it does seem just about possible that the OP may be correct, and this accurately foretells the end for JWs recording hours altogether. It would be such a tremendous and course changing event in the history of JWs that it is just too tempting to avoid contemplating what the implications would be.
Plus as I mentioned earlier, there does seem to be good internal logic that might prompt a change to stop collecting hours. If the roots and justification for collecting hours traditionally invoked the need for the organisation to appraise and plan their print publishing operations worldwide, then the question arrises why is it necessary to keep collecting this information when print publications are increasingly marginal to their activity? We know that the data on preaching is used to regulate the boundary of the community and to establish status within it, but rarely if ever is this stated so bluntly as a goal in Watchtower literature. So it is just about possible, if admittedly unlikely, that Watchtower will recognise that dwindling print activity logically indicates that collecting preaching data is no longer necessary or justified.
Another occasional justification that has been offered by Watchtower for collecting the data is that it encourages the brothers to be able to see the growth figures in their own country and others. This would not be possible, Watchtower has argued, unless everyone plays their part and reports their preaching activity. However as numbers start to decline this is unlikely to be a source of encouragement much longer.
So I agree that stopping collecting hours is unlikely, yet if would be such a significant change, not to mention opportunity for all sorts of reforms in how JWs operate and JW culture generally.
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Babies Who Are Not Dead From An Abortion
by minimus ina woman gets an abortion.
the baby is supposed to die because of the abortion but doesn’t.
should that living baby be put to death or should the baby be given medical help to survive?.
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slimboyfat
On second thoughts I think I’ll hold my counsel on this!
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108
New Upcoming Changes - No More Publisher Record Cards & Reporting Hours
by thedepressedsoul inpublisher record cards and reporting hours will be going away.
.
coming soon.. made this post 4 years ago, it happened - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24020002/kingdom-consolidation-sales-coming-reliable-source.
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slimboyfat
The effect of dropping the charge for the literature is very obvious from what followed in the organisation. I find it slightly odd the point even needs to be argued.
The fact that income from literature dropped considerably when the charges stopped is shown by the progressive downscaling from hardbacks to paperbacks, to fewer pages and less often, to discontinuing yearbooks, calendars and practically everything else.
The organisation scaled down its literature because the “donation arrangement” ruined their previously profitable enterprise. They didn’t scale down because contributions form the literaute was increasing under the new regime. That’s nonsensical. If contributions for the literature increased, then the incentive would have been to produce more literature, not less!
The fact that we have an internal letter that mentions this decrease in income in the early 1990s merely confirms what is already obvious by their actions: that dropping the literature charge was a financial disaster for Watchtower.
Incidentally, and almost redundant given all the other evidence, it’s also worth mentioning that in previous discussions of this topic, a number of contributors to the forum who were elders during the period have confirmed that donations following 1990 were far lower than the previous income through charges for the literature.
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108
New Upcoming Changes - No More Publisher Record Cards & Reporting Hours
by thedepressedsoul inpublisher record cards and reporting hours will be going away.
.
coming soon.. made this post 4 years ago, it happened - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24020002/kingdom-consolidation-sales-coming-reliable-source.
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slimboyfat
redvip there was an internal letter within a year of dropping charges in 1990 that stated income from literature was down. Every downscale in literature since then indicates the trend continued.
Don't forget that the bulk of Watchtower profit came from selling special and luxury items to JWs: insight books, deluxe Bibles, tapes, videos, yearbooks, Kingdom Interlinear, concordance, calendars, daily text, bound volumes, Bible stories book, individual magazine subscriptions...
I think we tend to forget just how huge Watchtower publishing used to be, and just how many items they sold to JWs, before you even begin to factor sales to the public.
The profit on each item may not have been massive, but they certainly weren’t selling at a loss, and with a captive market of millions it's easy to see how Watchtower we’re rolling in the money until the 1990s when the cutbacks began.
Any income prompted by donations for the dwindling literature today is negligible by comparison.
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108
New Upcoming Changes - No More Publisher Record Cards & Reporting Hours
by thedepressedsoul inpublisher record cards and reporting hours will be going away.
.
coming soon.. made this post 4 years ago, it happened - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24020002/kingdom-consolidation-sales-coming-reliable-source.
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slimboyfat
Don’t doubt the ability of the GB to make decisions that are against their interests.
The decision to stop charging for literature in 1990 was a monumental unforced error and a gross overreaction to having to pay taxes.
They could have chosen to pay the tax and keep charging for the literature and they would be in a far better position today.
So it’s entirely possible they will stop recording time for fairly trivial reasons (overreacting to data concerns, or worries about publishing declines) and it have dramatic unintended consequences for the organisation.
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62
OK, We Need To Talk About The Crazy New Great Tribulation Video...
by pale.emperor inif you haven't seen it already, skip to 1:14:30 in lloyds video and watch the craziness unfold.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2y7f7-k5wo.
i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.. they're digging themselves a great hole here, in about 30 years time they'll be claiming this video was a mere "speculation" and that "some people" got the wrong ideas..
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slimboyfat
It seems easier to stretch a “short period of time” to Satan (a spirit creature - who knows how he experiences time?) than it is to stretch a human generation.
For example they could possibly still be arguing that Satan’s “short” period is still going on in 2050 or 2100, but surely impossible to stretch a “generation” that far.
So if they drop 1914 and the generation, but keep 1919 as the establishment of true worship, then they have an endtime narrative they can essentially stick with indefinitely.
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62
OK, We Need To Talk About The Crazy New Great Tribulation Video...
by pale.emperor inif you haven't seen it already, skip to 1:14:30 in lloyds video and watch the craziness unfold.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2y7f7-k5wo.
i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.. they're digging themselves a great hole here, in about 30 years time they'll be claiming this video was a mere "speculation" and that "some people" got the wrong ideas..
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slimboyfat
The difference between 1914 and 1919 isn’t 5 years. It’s the difference between being tied to the “generation” timescale and not being tied to a specific timescale.
With 1919 they get all the benefit of claiming authority as the faithful slave, without having to justify the generation prediction.
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62
OK, We Need To Talk About The Crazy New Great Tribulation Video...
by pale.emperor inif you haven't seen it already, skip to 1:14:30 in lloyds video and watch the craziness unfold.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2y7f7-k5wo.
i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.. they're digging themselves a great hole here, in about 30 years time they'll be claiming this video was a mere "speculation" and that "some people" got the wrong ideas..
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slimboyfat
1919 does give them more time than 1914 because it is not tied fo “this generation”.
1919 simply marks the re-establishment of pure worship and the endtime can stretch from that date indefinitely.
Keeping 1919 affirms the authority of the GB-faithful slave chosen in that year, without tying them down to 1914-generation teaching.
For example Seventh Day Adventists believe the endtime and investigative judgement began in 1844 and continue to stretch this out.
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108
New Upcoming Changes - No More Publisher Record Cards & Reporting Hours
by thedepressedsoul inpublisher record cards and reporting hours will be going away.
.
coming soon.. made this post 4 years ago, it happened - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24020002/kingdom-consolidation-sales-coming-reliable-source.
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slimboyfat
The GB are no doubt aware, at least to some extent, of the downsides to stopping counting time. And in ordinary circumstances they may avoid making the decision to stop recording time. Yet they may simply be facing a scenario where it seems to them that the disadvantages of collecting time now outweigh the advantages.
They may be worried that data protection laws will harm them in future if they continue to collect this information. Plus they obviously realise that trends indicate they are entering a period of decline, and they see no advantage to continuing to collect and publish this data in these circumstances.
Plus there is a more basic point, that the Watchtower has often justified reporting time and placements on the basis that this information allows the organisation to plan their publishing activity efficiently. (I don’t have a specific reference for this, but I’m sure I’ve read and heard this justification multiple times) As they move away from print media altogether they may simply be facing up to the logic of their traditional rationale for reporting preaching and concluding that it is no longer necessary.
Having said all this, I think this change has the potential to have a huge impact on the organisation far beyond what the GB may anticipate. It could deflate morale and accelerate the ongoing collapse of the organisation.