Indeed the date of this document is the most important thing about it. It's the ramblings of a delusional monster staring down the barrel of history at his own demise. Reading between the lines Himmler perhaps reckoned JWs could be relied upon not to turn on the SS as the regime and the camp system fell apart. He was probably right about that.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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8
Heinrich Himmler and the Jehovah's Witnesses
by OrphanCrow inthis is a letter written in july 1944 by heinrich himmler, one of the most powerful men in nazi germany.. i have encountered quotes taken from this letter before but i have never read the letter in its entirety.
this is a translated copy from a russian website:.
http://www.k-istine.ru/sects/iegova_witness/iegova_witness_himmler-02.htm.
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The New JWdom - Vew of Older Publications? (and other related questions)
by Magnum ini feel that there aren’t many of that type anymore, but there have to be some – mostly old-timers.
how do they study?.
when i was active, i collected all the old publications i could find.
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slimboyfat
Yes I can remember informal discussions in JW homes, pulling out the Kingdom Interlinear, different Bible versions, old Watchtower volumes. I don't think you get many discussions like that any more. The culture has changed. People just don't take it as seriously any more.
You do still get some who obsessively keep on top of all the changes in teaching. The Watchtower helpfully published a list of changes a few years ago. You can use the library and App for so-called research. Or search a video even. (The introductions to Bible books video series is so incredibly dumb it is mind boggling)
Plus to answer the question how do we know which anti-types still stand: I think the Watchtower stated that only aunti-types specifically stated in the Bible are now accepted. That would be like Sarah and Hagar, and Melchizedek and a few others. No Jonasdabs, or John class, or Elijah/Elisha and so on, as far as I know.
It is depressing, but I think JWs are part of a broader trend. Society in general is just a lot less interested in the Bible than it used to be. Even among people who attend church there is not the level of interest there once was. JWs are not immune from this.
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the watchtower is starting to crumble
by pepperheart infor the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.
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slimboyfat
I don't doubt I've said different ideas at different times. These are just my ideas and they are evolving as facts change. But I think it's easy to reconcile the idea that a WWCG collapse could begin within a couple of years, yet take around 10 years to lose 50% of the membership as a result. That's the sort of scenario the WWCG experienced in the 1990s, and in fact is still playing out. I think they are far below 50% now.
This is not wishful thinking. No my real dream scenario is that the JW leadership recognise imminent collapse, implement important reforms (shunning, blood, evolution, democracy, gender and sexual equality, education...) and instead emphasise heritage we can be proud of: nonviolence/opposition to war, divine name, Bible teaching, schilarship, history, rationalism, freedom of thought, strong families and friendships. Radically transform the JW community and make a basis for a better humanity.
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Brain tumor causes woman to become JW (4 times!)
by Anders Andersen inwhy one woman mysteriously started hearing 'divine' voices.
after doctors admitted the woman to the psychiatric unit of the hospital, they learned that this wasn't the first time she felt a strong interest in religion and spirituality.
she described four previous times in her life, beginning at age 13 and again at ages 23, 32 and 41, when she experienced periods of intense spiritual and religious devotion.during these periods, which lasted about a year or two, she would join jehovah's witnesses and then later resign, when she lost interest, according to the report.as part of her psychiatric evaluation, the woman also underwent an mri.
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slimboyfat
Strange choice. If she had joined some Pentecostal group she would have fit right in, El Shaddai.
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the watchtower is starting to crumble
by pepperheart infor the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.
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slimboyfat
I don't doubt I've said different ideas at different times. These are just my ideas and they are evolving as facts change. But I think it's easy to reconcile the idea that a WWCG style collapse could begin within a couple of years, yet take around 10 years to lose 50% of the membership as a result. That's the sort of scenario the WWCG experienced, and in fact is still playing out. I think they are far below 50% now.
This is not wishful thinking. No my real dream scenario is that the JW leadership recognise imminent collapse, implement important reforms (shunning, blood, evolution, democracy, gender and sexual equality, education...) and instead emphasise heritage we can be proud of: nonviolence/opposition to war, the divine name, Bible teaching, scholarship, history, rationalism, freedom of thought, strong families and friendships; radically transform the JW community and make a basis for a better humanity.
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What's destroying Watchtower!
by UnshackleTheChains infor me, beyond any shadow of a doubt, it's the extreme shunning policy.. at a recent sunday meeting, i listened to a complete brainwashed sister saying how important it was that we stick to the shunning policy even if it is a close relative.. i just thought.
wtf.
there is a big difference between the brainwashed and the awoken class!.
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slimboyfat
I competely agree. Shunning has to stop. Were it not for shunning and freedom of thought I could happily be JW.
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the watchtower is starting to crumble
by pepperheart infor the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.
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slimboyfat
I think I've been pretty clear that anything resembling a WWCG type collapse would qualify as a collapse in my view. Including features such as a massive reduction of membership (say 50% in less than a decade, which is the sort of pace of WWCG decline), folding legal entities to protect assets, financial intervention/claims from outside stakeholders, disruption to organisational integrity, change of name, major splits, defections, renunciation of history, renunciation of core beliefs, and so on. I don't think they are far away from this.
The most possitive spin you could put on their current situation is that the GB and management have sat down and had long hard think about strategy. They decided, in the words of the old saying: "in order for things to remain the same, everything must change". So they've implemented a plan to avoid financial and organisational ruin. Well maybe so.
But I think the signals of panic are so high, the lack of coherent strategy so evident, and the accumulation of threats and dangers so great, that there is little way out for them at this point. They are facing some sort of existential crisis. Exactly what form it will take and what will emerge is not easy to say. But I think it will warrant the description "collapse" by any reasonable analysis.
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the watchtower is starting to crumble
by pepperheart infor the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.
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slimboyfat
Renunciation of their past, decimation of membership, change of name, dozens of splinter groups, financial ruin, complete disunity, you don't consider that collapse?
If that's your definition of survival then I guess I agree with you that Watchtower will "survive".
In order for it to be described as a "collapse" what exactly would you demand happen? That there be no members of Watchtower or any successor or splinter organisation anywhere in the world instantly? I think we can agree that's impossible. But if that's the only measure you'd accept then I guess you will always be right about Watchtower "survival".
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the watchtower is starting to crumble
by pepperheart infor the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.
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slimboyfat
They are firing out all sorts of indications of desperation in all directions and in multi-colour. But some people just don't see it.
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Apathy and of course Scandals!
by KW13 ini remember as a young dub, being told by others and particularly from the platform that apathy was the number one enemy and in many ways i think that's true today.
people are seeing a change from the 70's - 80's (the last time the end 'felt' close to many) and now the witnesses are in a rut.
the society seem to have backed off from making bold claims and instead seem to be trying their best to retain the members they have as opposed to trying to gain attention of others as they did in the formative years of the religion when they wore sandwich boards - throw in the growing spotlight on child abuse issues and you've got yourself a religion that's trapped in a purgatory of sorts - the majority of long time members will stay in the religion and die in the religion but as time goes on i think are clearly losing interest and the 'fiery passion' that used to be so obvious before and outsiders just arent interested as there are better, more interesting things to do.
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slimboyfat
I don't know, other ones have leaked, no? Like the "digital future" one. I think it would take a UK elder to download it and leak it to someone.