slimboyfat

Joined

• started 536 topics
• posted 17,587 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by slimboyfat

• 
  37

  Watchtower teaches that Jesus dying on the stake is no longer certain

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower has held for many years that jesus died on a stake and held strongly to this teaching.

  w 1951 3/15 the above agrees with the new world translation of the christian greek scriptures in its appendix, page 769, in saying that the instrument upon which jesus was nailed was a stake without a crossbeam, and not the religiously represented “cross”; and that the greek word used for that instrument in ancient time meant a “stake” and not the conventional religious cross.

  they are no longer certain on this point.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I think they previously conceded it might be a cross shape but said ultimately it doesn't matter.
• 
  15

  Observation of Sam Heard at Regional Convention in Dayton, OH

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  heard gave 3 talks at the convention.

  one thing i noticed rather quickly was how stuck he was to his notes.

  he rarely looked up.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Well he is getting old.

  Back in the day he could wax lyrical extemporaneously on how women are not as smart as men and what can turn people gay.

  There are YouTube videos.
• 
  6

  Pastor Russell letters?

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most of those who read my comments and posts here know i'm not a witness but a historian who writes about them.

  as my writing partner and i near completion of volume 2 of separate identity, we need scans of any letters, post cards or what have you written by russell, any of his associates or any pre-1916 adherent - no matter how insignificant they may appear.. can you helps with this?

  we also need clear scans of watch tower convention programs from that era.. i appreciate any help that comes my way.. rachael.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I hope you find what you are looking for.

  You know, about ten years or so ago I saw the most amazing thing on eBay. It was a homemade Bible Student quiz/board game dating from before the First World War. Perhaps it had no direct connection to Russell himself, but it would have been a fascinating insight into early Bible Student ideas and social history. I have been kicking myself for not buying it ever since.

  Homemade Bible quizzes and board games have been quite popular among JW generally. I'd like to get my hands on anything of that sort, but this was a very early example.

  Would that sort of ephemera also be useful? I wonder if others come across that sort of thing.
• 
  7

  Reading technology as a driver of religious change among JWs

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wonder if jws are currently undergoing a more significant transformation than generally appreciated.

  and i wonder if the drivers for that change are a combination of legal, economic, and technological factors.

  legal challenges changed jws stance of whether they are a "religion" with "ministers", in the 1950s, and stopped them charging for the literature in the 1990s.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I wonder if JWs are currently undergoing a more significant transformation than generally appreciated. And I wonder if the drivers for that change are a combination of legal, economic, and technological factors.

  Legal challenges changed JWs stance of whether they are a "religion" with "ministers", in the 1950s, and stopped them charging for the literature in the 1990s. Economic challenges have produced all sorts of cutbacks in literature and branch facilities in recent years. These drivers of change are much discussed.

  But I want to focus on the impact of changing reading technology.

  Changing reading technology has long been analysed as an important factor in the development of early Christianity. Some have argued, for example, that books of the New Testament such as Luke, Acts and John are roughly the size of text that will comfortably fit on an average length scroll. So the technology of the time may have dictated the length of some NT writings.

  Christians adopted the Codex format very early and soon a number of long texts could be combined within a single Codex. This may have affected the formation of the canon as the four gospels, letter collections and so on could easily be brought together as larger units.

  Use of the Codex also served the function of distinguishing Christian texts from Jewish texts which continued to be transmitted on scrolls. Codices were also cheaper, easier to produce and transport. Some were made as rough private copies and others had a more professional finish. All this impacted the character and growth of early Christianity with social and economic implications.

  The history and course of early Christianity is closely bound up with the reading technology it employed.

  The same is true with modern day JWs/Bible Students in a number of significant respects. Therefore the recent move away from printed books and emphasis on tablets and ebooks may be highly significant and suggestive of further developments.

  The Bible Students took advantage of the favourable climate for religious magazine publishing the late nineteenth century. In fact they excelled as perhaps no other. They have also taken advantage of book technology in the promotion of their beliefs in Africa and elsewhere.

  When the organisation is viewed primarily as a publishing company then its claims of exclusivity at various stages of development are elucidated. For example many of the earliest disputes between Russell and his aqaintainces were essentially disagreements about who had rightful ownership of subscription lists, and editorial structure. Problems intimately tied to the religious publishing industry.

  Later when successor Rutherford expelled members such as William Schnell and Olin Moyle, often disagreements about book publishing and sales were at the root. For example a careful reading of "Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave" suggests that Schnell attempted to establish a book selling company that rivalled (in a small way) the Watchtower, and this lay at the heart of the disjuncture.

  Many of the exclusive claims of the Watchtower, even the doctrine of the "faithful slave" itself can be read simply as attempts to convince consumers of their published material not to give business to rival vendors.

  In more recent times the organisation has strongly discouraged JWs from researching and publishing their own material on Bible topics. Stoops (an American company that sells books and stationary and other items useful to JWs) and other fringe JW businesses have been tolerated if they don't infringe on the central area of competence of the WT producing religious material.

  Even when encouraging JWs to learn foreign languages to preach, the organisation has been wary about brothers promoting outside language learning aids and sought to fill the niche to some extent itself.

  But if JWs are moving out of print publishing, doesn't this perhaps change... everything? Not overnight and not consciously, but in fundamental and enduring ways,

  I guess, most fundamentally of all, if the Watchtower organisation no longer relies for its very survival upon consumers of their material exclusively purchasing their print material, might this alter their exclusivist claims? If other people selling religious books is no longer a threat to their core activity, might that change their rhetoric and approach long term. And I really mean long term, because old habits die hard and attitudes are deeply ingrained. But as new generations of leaders come and go, and there is no longer any organisational necessity to forbid outside publishing, might the prohibitions relax? The exclusivist claims recede?

  This is only one area in which changing reading technology may affect the structure and outlook of the organisation. It may also impact the sense of community and history, as physical libraries are downscaled or decommissioned. No longer will future JWs pick up old study books full of underlining and annotation. JW books won't be found in outside libraries and thrift stores.

  Long JW books used to be 400 pages upwards, and classic "small" books were 192 pages. The lengths (as for early Christians) was dictated by technology. This time the set up of the printing presses plus the general expectation of how long a "book" should be. As the WT moves away from physical publishing, the length of its "books", their format, character, and function may develop in subtle but significant new ways. Books that were once objects to be bought, stored, cherished and adored, are now downloaded, used and cross referenced for a limited time. This may change not only the physicality, but the actual content,

  Two things I notice about recent depictions of reading technology in the WT literature: 1) Kingdom Halls are depicted as full of brothers and sisters using tablets rather than physical magazines and books and 2) pictures of the new system still depict believers using traditional book format rather than new technology. I don't know whether this says more about the idealised, almost primitive conception of paradise, or the eagerness for brothers to adopt new technology in the present system.

  Compare the brother using a tablet in the KH on page 25 with books in the new system on page 13.

  https://download-a.akamaihd.net/files/media_magazines/31/w_E_201704.pdf
  

  In any case I reckon the change in reading technology and practice among JWs currently taking place is highly significant and may have long lansting and deep ramifications. The early Christian adoption of the Codex or book format had vast historical ramifications. And as a technology it endured for nearly 2000 years. The significance of moves away from published physical books among JWs must be viewed in that sort of context. We are only scratching the surface at the moment,
• 
  26

  Where were the present GB members in 1975 and their ages the

  by Lostandfound in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  42years have passed since the great 1975 expectation delivered nothing.

  blame for the expectations laid at feet of the faithful, 'it's your fault , you believed us so you are responsible for the let down'.

  i have asked this previously and repeat the point, where were the current members of the governing body, 43 years ago.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Gerrit Loesch has been anointed since the 1970s. I'm sure some of the others partook that far back too.

  Sure in the video where Splane expalined the overlapping generation the example he used was Fred Franz overlapping with, who? Those anointed before 1992 when Franz died.

  Antony Morris wasn't long back from Vietnam in 1975. In fact I don't think he was even a JW when the "Freedom of the Sons of God" book was published.
• 
  28

  Dutch conventions organized like circuits

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here in holland jw.org is organizing for the first time the yearly conventions like circuits.

  the whole summer the new convention hall is used for small group conventions instead of 10.000 seat external halls.. it keeps the money in the organization.

  not renting external buildings.. the 29.000 witnesses here are divided now into 2.000 seat audience.. g..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  How boring.

  Why are JWs intent on removing anything and everything remotely enjoyable? In this case large conventions in interesting locations.
• 
  41

  Why does this forum tolerate Cold steele and his mormonism beliefs ? Who`s next ?

  by smiddy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought this forum was for people who were ex jw`s and pro jw`s and the like to debate ,discuss and reasonably talk about our differences ,and sometimes drift off into politics world events and whatever.. however over a period of time i have come across cold steel `s many posts which are nothing more than promoting his mormon religions point of view./beliefs what has that got to do with jehovahs witnesses and the concerns many have with the jw religion.?.

  it seems to me he is using this forum to promote his religion and is getting away with it over a long period of time.. how long before other cult religions see this as a springboard for promoting their own religion such as .

  sda`s ,christian scientists , christadelphians ,beroean bible students ,etc.etc.. where will it end if he is able to keep doing this ?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  I'm not bothered about Cold Steel or his beliefs.

  Threads and posts that attempt to shut down conversations and unpopular points of view I have less time for.
• 
  34

  2017 Sunday RC Final Talk & Comments About 1975

  by baldeagle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many of us here have commented on the deceitful friday afternoon video shown at the 2017 rc that discussed 1975.. the video attempted to shift the blame onto congregation members for the fiasco saying, "some were looking to a certain date as signifying the end of this old system of things.".

  this same video mentions how, “a few even went so far as selling their homes and quitting their jobs.”.

  we all know that the wt leadership created this teaching and endorsed it right up to its abject failure.. now below is the concluding talk given on sunday at the rc.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Interesting they should say the actual date in the talk. I thought they had avoided mentioning the actual date in the video. I wonder if they will find a speaker at each convention who can relate to the event.

  The Kingdom song at the start reminds me of Adiemus, especially when it's in another language.

  https://youtu.be/aL8kZ-iVk90
  
• 
  2

  Reading hearts - Only Jah can.. but Jesus too.

  by Sanchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was reading the daily text this morning (june 26th, 2017) and found this:.

  but jesus, who could read hearts, discerned that the people were more interested in physical food than in what he taught.

  he saw what was wrong, patiently corrected them, and explained how they could improve.. .

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  John 5:19-22 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel. For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes alive whomever he wants to. For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,
• 
  28

  Report from Japan

  by wifibandit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anon in japan says:.

  i served in the third circuit of shikoku japan.

  a few years ago, a well-known theocratic family disassociated.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  slimboyfat

  Well, despite millions of immigrants over the last few years, German JW growth is still among the poorest in Europe.

  Plus Germany had more immigrants than the UK even before the recent influx - 2010 figures in table:

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany