Self-identification is one way of looking at it. It all depends who you think gets to define such things. There are instances where many would object to self-identification. A prisoner says he's not a criminal but a judge says he is. A psychiatrist says a patient is a schizophrenic but the patient insists he's not. A JW says he's a Christian but a Chritian minister says he's not. A person claims to be a citizen but a border agent says he's not. Who gets to say who is what? Always the person themselves? Not so easy. It's a bit more complicated than that.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
So what?
Rejection of the Nicene creed is the reason other Christian denominations place JWs outside the scope of Christendom.
Whether the Nicene creed is an appropriate boundary for Christendom can of course be disputed. It doesn't change the fact that it is a dominant definition of what counts as Christian and it's the reason JWs are generally not accepted as Christians by other denominations.
There is no right or wrong answer to the question, are JWs Christians? Your answer to the question tells us more about your own position than it does about JWs or Christianity.
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
Non-acceptance of the Nicene creed is hardly a "tenuous reason" for placing JWs outside of Christendom. It's a very longstanding and widely held definition of Christianity that JWs, Mormons and a few other "heretical" groups fall outside. It is a definition which has a very long history, and was in no way invented simply to exclude JWs.
In the end there is no correct answer to the issue of whether JWs are Christian. A person's position on the issue tells us more about that person's own views than it does about JWs or Christinaity.
To a JW they are Christian because they believe they follow the Bible, in fact they believe they are the only Christians.
To many Christians JWs don't count as Christian because they don't accept the Nicene creed.
To some liberal Christians JWs may count as Christians because they are liberal and simply don't like excluding people.
To some onlookers JWs behave in ways that don't seem very "Christian".
To some former members JWs are not worthy of the name Christian for a variety of reasons from false teachings to harmful practices.
To some atheists JWs might as well be called Christians because all Christians believe nonsense anyway and have harmful practices, so why single out JWs as non-Christian?
There is no right or wrong answer to the question are JWs Christian? It depends on your perspective.
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The Debate Is Over...
by JW_Rogue infor years theologians and historians have researched who the historical person known as jesus was and how much of the biblical account could be verified.
countless books have been written going into great detail.
this has been a controversial subject with some even claiming that jesus never existed.
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slimboyfat
To be honest I doubt they even ventured onto the Internet to research this magazine. They probably searched the Watchtower library cut and paste. I'd be curious to know if there is any quote used in this article that they've not already used in the literature in the past.
The quality of the literature is so feeble it is depressing.
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Selloff Hinted At Assembly
by thedepressedsoul inthe last talk at the assembly made an interesting statement, "we can show faith by following direction if we're asked to move to another kingdom hall for better use of dedicated christian funds".
this statement has everyone talking.
i spoke to multiple individuals and they heard the same thing at different assembly's.. i know they have been "evaluating" all kingdom halls the last year or two.
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slimboyfat
It would be fascinating if they did this locally, just to see who would bother moving, and who would just stop attending.
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slimboyfat
My initial reaction: you can't take away my mumpsimu5!
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The Debate Is Over...
by JW_Rogue infor years theologians and historians have researched who the historical person known as jesus was and how much of the biblical account could be verified.
countless books have been written going into great detail.
this has been a controversial subject with some even claiming that jesus never existed.
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slimboyfat
Ha ha that's so true. I saw this article. It goes nowhere near touching the contemporary debate on the issue. Or the debate at any time for that matter. It's just a collection of vaguely relevant quotes. Sad to think many JWs don't even realise how inadequate it is.
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
Another reason outsiders and former members may dispute the name "Christian" for JWs, beyond just doctrine, has more to do with the everyday sense of the word "Christian" as meaning a good or a kind person.
In situations like where JWs allow a family member to die without blood. Outsiders might remark that it doesn't sound very "Christian" to them. Same with shunning, outsiders who hear about cutting off children might say, "and they call themselves Christian?"
But then I suspect we get closer to the heart of what the OP may be about, as certain vehement atheists might resent the equation of Christian with kindness or goodness, and therefore regard it as simply a label for a collection of superstitions they regard as equally applicable to JWs as to other groups. Which is okay as a perspective but we should be honest about the motivation and intention of the gesture. It's not intended as an inclusive gesture toward JWs but rather an attempt to bundle all professed "Christians" together and to disregard their own distinctions about what constitutes a Christian.
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114
Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?
by nicolaou injehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
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slimboyfat
Firstly it works both ways, as JWs don't accept others are Christians either. But each for different reasons.
Other Christians generally do not recognise JWs as Christians because they don't accept the Nicene creed, which many perceive to mark the boundary of what can and cannot be considered Christian. It might seem a narrow definition, but admittedly it is broad enough to include hundreds of denominations all over the world and the vast majority of those who self-identity as Christian.
JWs on the other hand reject others as Christians not only because of doctrine but also because those outside the organisation do not recognise the unique authority of the religious leaders of their own church. So even if another group held all the same doctrines as JWs, but rejected the Governing Body, it is doubtful whether JWs would recognise them as Christian. In this respect they resemble the Catholic Church, although even the Catholic Church has shown some interest in ecumenism.
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Dinner plans canceled because "I need to talk to the elders". Huh?
by Darkknight757 inso this past week the wife and i have received several phone calls and text messages from our old hall.
we were also invited out to dinner to catch up with some old friends.
an hour before dinner this guys wife messaged my wife and said that she "can't wait for tonight!!
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slimboyfat
I can't believe how understanding you are. It's one thing to decide that you are suddenly unsavoury characters and that they need the elders ok before they eat with you - quite another to decide this ten minutes into the dinner engagement. Rude is not the word.
That's how any normal person would look at the situation. But from a JW point of view, if you are "bad association" then you must know it yourself, because it's like a real fact about you, rather than something the elders simply made up. And if it's a real fact about you that you are "bad association", and you attempted to associate with them despite your bad status. Well in that case the fault is all yours. In fact you owe them an apology for attempting to associate with them and putting them in this terribly awkward situation!
That's if you have a proper theocratic appreciation of the situation.