slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  32

  What Happens to Adam and Eve?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in jw theology, what happens to adam and eve?

  are they resurrected and become heirs to paradise on earth?

  or will they become two of the heavenly class?

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  slimboyfat

  Page 124 of the Divine Plan of the Ages (1913 edition) seems to say God foresaw that Adam would sin.

  God not only foresaw that, having given man freedom of choice, he would, through lack of full appreciation of sin and its results, accept it, but he also saw that, becoming acquainted with it, he would still choose it, because that acquaintance would so impair his moral nature that evil would gradually become more agreeable and more desirable to him than good. Still, God designed to permit evil, because, having the remedy provided for man's release from its consequences, he saw that the result would be to lead him, through experience, to a full appreciation of "the exceeding sinfulness of sin" and of the matchless brilliance of virtue in contrast with it - thus teaching him the more to love and honour his creator, who is the source and fountain of all goodness, and forever shun that which brought him so much woe and misery.

  So Russell taught what JWs would later come to reject - that God knew Adam would sin and it was part of his plan. Russell also claims that Adam's test was no farce and he was given a choice.

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011006
  
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  32

  What Happens to Adam and Eve?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in jw theology, what happens to adam and eve?

  are they resurrected and become heirs to paradise on earth?

  or will they become two of the heavenly class?

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  2. 
  3. 
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  slimboyfat

  Russell believed that god always intended the sin of Adam, it was part of his "Divine Plan of the Ages".

  I have never seen this. Have you got a reference?
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

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  slimboyfat

  I just watched the video again. I have not read the book you mention, but I have read a book by Harris about free will and his "Letter to a Christian Nation". I didn't like either, in fact I'd say it's a case of I want the time back please.

  A key quote in his speech there was his comment that, "some ideas just need to be excluded", or along those lines. What does he mean by that? Does he mean literally ban certain ideas? If so, we have a dictator. If not, if he simply means that we should all agree Ted Bumdy was bad - we do that already. We don't need science to tell us that. In fact it's not clear how science can tell us that.

  Either Harris is saying that the idea that Bundy was good should be banned, which is ridiculous, of he is saying that we should all agree such an opinion is wrong, which is obvious. Most of what Harris says can similarly be divided into the obvious and the ridiculous.
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

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  slimboyfat

  Viv you can add anything to any imaginary list you like as far as I am concerned. You never back up anything you say. If you ever make an actual argument in favour of any of the claims you make, there will be something to discuss.
• 
  583

  What is the purpose of life?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  while reading the magazines the other day it occurred to me that jws never really had a very good answer to that question.

  because it was aimed at young people and it said something along the lines, "if you believe in god you have a purpose, but if you don't believe in god your life has no purpose or meaning".

  i think that is a faulty analysis of the situation.

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  slimboyfat

  John Mann there was nothing wrong with your definition. Don't let Viv give you the run around. I think Cofty is correct positivists allow that logic can deliver some knowledge also, but this is limited. You're right that the main idea is that only science can deliver true knowledge. In previous conversation Cofty has claimed that science can even tell us the answers to ethical questions. It's a kind of madness. I realised later that this "science of ethics" was an idea that Sam Harris has tried to promote. He is completely barmy, and I think many are now seeing through him and how shallow his arguments are. And not just shallow but dangerous, with his "let's nuke the Middle East first" argument, and his support for Trump-style profiling and Muslim ban. If those are the ethical conclusions his "science" arrives at, he can keep it.

  Here it is, positivism driven to its ultimate, and crazy, logical conclusion.

  https://youtu.be/Hj9oB4zpHww
  
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  30

  After 52 years a Watchtower slave 9/11 gave me the push I needed to get out.

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i turned in my letter of disassociation on september 18, 2001 but it was 9/11 that showed me what the witnesses really feel about human lives and the future wished for.. i was in limbo after my wife of 27 years left me on july 30, 2001. she knew i wasn't buying the jw program anymore.

  she told me she come back to me when "i got my head straighten out about god and the church".. so for 40 days i was in limbo.

  i stopped going to meetings.

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  slimboyfat

  I know people who went back to JWs after September 11th.
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  16

  Publisher death nail.

  by Chook in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have done this exactly as quoted more than once.

  i ask elder if it's better to hide serious sin or reveal, of course we know the answer.

  then i ask them to explain elders book page 38 paragraph 19, which say it's sometimes ok for elder who has committed immorality and has kept it secret to continue serving as elder.

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  slimboyfat

  It's crazy, hypocritical, and looks plain sneaky. But I guess it's just what happens when you have a group of people who take their own selection by "Holy Spirit" extremely seriously. They reason in their heads that Jehovah is in charge of the elders arrangement, and Jehovah doesn't make mistakes. So if it looks like an elder got away with something, then "logically" Jehovah must have allowed it to happen that way, because he doesn't want the elder removed.
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  47

  New JW chain-email going around

  by FaithfulBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  apparently, the society knows exactly when the great tribulation is going to break out, but they're only letting the public know through subliminal messages in their images.

  here's a new chain letter that's being passed around between witnesses:.

  (daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45).

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  slimboyfat

  An elder actually pointed this out to me a few years ago. Not all of them, but comparing the Daniel book and the brochure, I think. It was all I could do to stop rolling my eyes.
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  182

  Major congregational quake in Southern California

  by Hecce in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this notice is not official yet and it should be confidential until released thru the proper channels.

  a friend of mine told me about a huge elders meeting in southern california.

  the subject was the relocation and dissolution of some congregations; it seems that this is the result of some project that has been going on for some time and is going to be implemented right now.. please let me know if this is happening all over the country?.

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  slimboyfat

  I know this happened in Europe. A city with something like 18 congregations was consolidated into just a handful of Kingdom Halls. It caused a lot of disruption, breaking old friendships and making JWs travel a long way to the meetings. Now they are discussing re-opening a couple of Kingdom Halls. But the damage is alread done. I think numbers will be down because of this. Each time congregations are moved some marginal JWs take it as a cue to stop associating.
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  19

  Why start preaching work in 1876? Something to ask JW's who are still in

  by fedup in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we learn from the bible that the characters that preached doomsday messages, such as lot, noah, etc all got to see the result of the message they preached, we studied that the final judgement from god was seen by the preacher as well as the people that heard and ignored the message.

  my point is this, it would have been ridiculous for noah to start preaching to people, put the fear of god in all the listeners that the flood is coming, build the ark and then as a result, nothing happens to them.

  even if the flood would have happened later, let's say 50 years after noah and all the people that heard him have died from natural causes.

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  slimboyfat

  I knew an old sister who was adamant Armageddon would come in 1999.

  Her logic was that the Watch Tower was first published in 1879 and 1879 plus 120 years was 1999.