in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
The thread is based on the assumption that scientific discoveries will tend to support an atheistic view of reality and asks how theists well respond when confronted with the new proof. I am saying that reality does not work like that and scientific discoveries do not solve ultimate questions.
Where is a strawman involved in making that basic observation?
in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
What is your problem? Do you mean to imply I don't really mean what I say? The idea that our picture of reality will never be finally settled is hardly a far out notion. It's pretty mainstream. The fact that JWs and some atheists share this confidence, that one day they'll be "proved right", once and for all, is worth pointing out. Or am I a "troll" simply because I don't agree with you that the nature of reality will one day be finally settled? And how on earth does calling me names (no personal attacks?) address the argument?
in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
This thread reminds me of the Kingdom Song that goes:
Then they will know you only are Jehovah
Then they will know your ways are just and true
Then they will know throughout the whole creation
All you have purposed you will surely do
JW believers and their atheist counterparts seem to share the same belief that at some point in the future their view of reality will be confirmed beyond doubt, once and for all. The evidence will be so overwhelming at Armageddon/following some scientific breakthrough, that their opponents will simply have to recognise the "truth" of the situation.
It is a fantasy.
i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.
one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?
what was their real purpose?.
If I was asked to provide the "real" reasons for the 1975 phenomenon among JWs I'd give the following factors.
Fred Franz increased in confidence as well as disconnect from reality following his successful translation of the NWT. He increasinly developed detailed interpretations of prophecy as the long books on prophecy from the period show.
Knorr may have stopped the 1975 fiasco were it not for the fact that his position and authority had been weakened by the findings of the Aid book researchers in the 1960s and his failing health in the 1970s.
JW growth was pretty phenomenal in the 1940s and 1950s, but had slowed significantly in the 1960s. Even those in the leadership who were not convinced by 1975 may have been swept along by the new enthusiasm and activity the date produced.
It was an unsettled time in society in general, with the failed revolutions of 1968, the Vietnam war, economic and political instability. All these things may have made it easier for JWs to believe the "system of things" was nearing its end.
An interesting aspect of the 1975 phenomenon that is not often commented upon is the very uneven impact it had on JWs worldwide. If you look at the numbers who joined before 1975 and those who left after 1975, some countries such as the Philippnes lost up to half the membership, whereas growth in other countries such as Italy was not adversely impacted at all.
i am of the opinion that the wt doctrine is influenced more by external factors that it is by internal ones.
one of the doctrines that has puzzled me for some time is the armageddon prediction of 1975. why would the wts make this prediction?
what was their real purpose?.
In addition to the good reasons for doubting this explanation of 1975 already given. I would add that there is simply no evidence that JWs' status as a proselytising community has ever been in doubt. Especially in the United States where they fought many legal battles on that basis. They may have preached more leading up to 1975, but they were also highly active preaching before the prediction, as well as following the failed date.
And as others pointed out, the evidence is that Fred Franz was the driving force behind 1975. If there is any evidence he was motivated by legal and financial pressures, rather than what he appeared to be, caught up in his own obscure biblical formulations, it's not been presented.
Plus 1975 was not first mentioned in 1966, as another poster careful has pointed out, this date was indicated as early as the 1940s.
https://youtu.be/q6b77gm8xxi.
came across this audio recording on youtube which i found compelling.
an xjw recounts the story of how jws recently had a big party in the us.
Clever idea for a story, just inside the realms of possibility because of 1) JW desire to avoid bad publicity and 2) herd mentality.
https://youtu.be/q6b77gm8xxi.
came across this audio recording on youtube which i found compelling.
an xjw recounts the story of how jws recently had a big party in the us.
It sounds almost like a radio play to me.
i had not seen my parents for over 15 years since the funeral of my brother and even then no one spoke to me as i was da.
my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 2014 and i was then permitted contact with them.
i now know the reason that this is allowed.
When JWs break up families, in particular when they stop parents from talking to children, you'd think, morally, they'd have an obligation to look after the parents who have followed the rules and alienated theselves. Regular morality doesn't seem to apply to JWs however. They feel no obligation or responsibility for the consequences of their action or policies.
i sat in town recently, right in the window of a nice wee pub.
within minutes i realised that i had a perfect view of a jw cart and the two ridiculously dressed jw's (they have absolutely no individuality at all.
what's more, they all look like they're going to a funeral).
Yeah it's not exactly "Religion is a snare and a racket!" is it?
it seems like many feel hurt or saddened by the practice of shunning by witnesses.. yes, when ones who we were close to, perhaps family or ones we thought were close friends choose to follow the warped directions of the society, it may seem hurtful.. but really, our reaction is up to us.
the fact is, these ones have shown that in reality, their love for us was never real or genuine.
no, those relationships were superficial and lacking in substance.
Because, despite telling yourself that they are under mind control and "only following the rules", you can't help feeling that their affection for you should have been meaningful enough to override it.
