Posts by ringo5

  • ringo5
    4

    Letter to MOM (comments welcomed)

    by ringo5 in
    1. jw
    2. friends

    it's been a long time since i've posted anything, probably since i've been in the process of becoming an ex-exjw but lately i've been getting more emails from family inquiring about my beliefs or lack thereof, and often sending the latest rags, no doubt to lift my day .

    so, i thought i'd draft a letter to send to my mom, with the intention of letting her see a glimpse of my state of mind, and hopefully ease her mind some to see that i'm not in despair or plagued by feelings of guilt.

    i'll post the one part of her letter first that's relevant and then my response.

    1. fokyc
    2. carla
    3. worldtraveller
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    It's been a long time since I've posted anything, probably since I've been in the process of becoming an ex-exJW but lately I've been getting more emails from family inquiring about my beliefs or lack thereof, and often sending the latest rags, no doubt to lift my day . So, I thought I'd draft a letter to send to my Mom, with the intention of letting her see a glimpse of my state of mind, and hopefully ease her mind some to see that I'm not in despair or plagued by feelings of guilt. I'll post the one part of her letter first that's relevant and then my response.

    If you can put on your old JW thinking cap back on for a moment(you know that one that was way too tight), I'm just looking for some feedback here on how she might react or respond.

    Here's her's:

    Did you get the material I sent you? I hope that you did and that you

    will give it your full attention. What else is there, ----? Where did

    you learn answers to important questions except for the truth you

    learned earlier in life? Search out your douibts, clear them up, please.

    We are enjoying so many good things with the cong. and with the people

    we're studying with. There's nothing else out there in the world, is

    there? Child rearing(tho' your Dad and I were quite stupid about it

    until we got to -----). Things are a lot worse since yoiu were a

    child-- kids talking about sex before they're ten yeards old. Oh, it's

    going on down here so why not your way, too. I worry about ------

    Here's mine:

    I did get the material you sent me, but I'd rather discuss things with you directly if that's Ok. There are lots we've never talked about, both when I was growing up, and now as adults, but I suppose that's all part of a "normal" family dynamic if there is such a thing. It’s interesting you mentioned doubts and how I should clear them up. Of course, while not an altogether pleasant condition, doubt is a necessary tool if we are to be kept from accepting as gospel all manner of fantastical claims, whether they be financial, scientific, or religious in nature.

    For instance, you could say the entire scientific method is based on doubt. The best scientific experiments are designed to take out human biases since as one scientist put it “Smart people (like smart lawyers) can come up with very good explanations for mistaken points of view“. Many experiments may be needed to test the validity of a hypothesis and need to be retested by other researchers, again implying doubt but still working toward testing whether or not its predictions are born out by the results of the experiment. Of course, there are good reasons for all this doubt, as scientists have human biases like everyone else. An individual scientist may leave out or ignore data that doesn’t support his interpretation of the results. In that case, there may be a psychological tendency to find "something wrong", such as systematic effects, with data which does not support his expectations, while data which does agree with his expectations may not be checked as carefully. As you can imagine, he may not enjoy having his work being checked over by other researchers looking for errors in his methodology, but if he wants to have his theory accepted and get some credit for it from his peers, this is how it must be done. But the whole purpose of this method is to increase mankind’s knowledge of how nature works and in doing so demonstrates how we know what we know. Ok, I will get to my point sometime...

    While I am not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination, my work does use some of the same methods in problem solving. Everyday brings new problems which require a systematic approach to identify and either repair or devise new ways of doing things. Sometimes I may think I know how something works, or why it doesn’t work, and start my testing from that point. But if my testing shows otherwise, I have to quickly look for other reasons and mull over other possible scenarios to account for the data I am seeing. If I do not leave myself open to the possibility of being wrong, and remain confident that my initial assessment of the problem was the correct one no matter what my data is telling me, I would be fortunate to hold on to any job in my field for very long. So while I always leave myself open to the idea that I can be wrong (back to the doubt issue again), I’m confident in the process that can lead me to a more accurate understanding. That process involves certain standards of proof, logic and argument that can weed out unsubstantiated beliefs and save a lot of wasted time and effort. Now I mentioned beliefs because it’s something I’m sure you’re concerned about, albeit beliefs of an entirely different nature.

    When we talk about religious beliefs, usually for most people it's those things they learned as a young child that they hold most dear. I'm sure you've noticed this yourself when you ask people about their beliefs (i.e. a diehard Catholic that has an emotional attachment to one of the sacraments) and is also the reason that whatever religion one is born into, that is likely the one they stay with for the rest of their lives. Perhaps because those beliefs, whatever they are, serve as part of their identity and give them a sense of community. To challenge those beliefs takes a lot of courage since it's like tearing away at their own self, threatening their ties to family and/or community, and all without guaranteeing they will be replaced by something better. Since I already mentioned Catholics, I'll use one as an example. You've probably met one that is well aware of all the issues surrounding the problem with pedophile priests, the widespread pervasiveness of the problem and the attempted cover-ups of the Church to deal with it. But they have still have faith that God will correct the problem because their church is “God’s Church”.

    In this case, would you admire their faith? Would you respect the fact that they have pushed aside any doubts of their faith that the revelation (irony intended) of this problem might have created? Perhaps you would get the feeling that no matter what happened they could never give up the belief in their church. They may seem to you to be perfectly rational in other ways, able to hold down a job, raise a family, drive on the right side of the road, walk not run with scissors, but in this one area, their emotional bond with their beliefs has prevented them from seeing what probably seems so crystal clear to you.

    On the other hand, what if in spite of their feelings of loyalty to the church, pressure from family, and uncertainty about where their questioning may take them, they have come to the conclusion that they had put their faith in an entirely human organization with entirely human leaders with entirely human motivations? You can be sure that if they were sincere in their previous beliefs, this would not be easy, and not without emotional pain from realizing they had been duped, followed by some feelings of resentment.

    In each of these scenarios, was the person better served by doubt or faith?

    Which person would garner more respect from you?

  • frankiespeakin
    17

    Excellent video on Shamanish

    by frankiespeakin in
    1. jw
    2. friends

    i think this video will be an eye opener for many,,i'm sure you will all enjoy the women shaman near the end of the video.. .

    healing / shaman .

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2173642525917926602&hl=en.

    1. frankiespeakin
    2. frankiespeakin
    3. frankiespeakin
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    alt

  • drew sagan
    24

    The "Bait and Switch" tactics of the Watchtower Society

    by drew sagan in
    1. jw
    2. friends

    i haven't been around jwd much these past few months, mainly because i've been busy with many other different things.

    that is all the bait.

    most people know that the jehovah's witnesses are not there "just to talk about the bible".

    1. integ
    2. drew sagan
    3. ldrnomo
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    Good thread. I have to agree with Slimboy here. The story used to be more interesting. Now the selling features are so watered down, the rank and file are hard pressed to get excited about them anymore. And salesmen who aren't excited about their product, don't make very good salesmen.

    I forget the details now but there is a laugh-out-loud funny claim somewhere in there that Jehovah sent a message to the Watchtower leadership about where to base the headquaters by the amount of coal that was available - or something weird like that. They just don't make the books like that any more that's for sure.

    That was a knee slapper SBF! I found it for you...

    ***

    yb75pp.121-122Part2—UnitedStatesofAmerica***

    Upon Brother Rutherford’s return to the Society’s Pittsburgh offices, he instructed the Society’s vice-president, C. A. Wise, to go to Brooklyn and see about reopening Bethel and renting premises where the Society could begin printing operations. The conversation went like this:

    "Go and see whether it is the Lord’s will for us to return back to Brooklyn."

    "How will I determine as to whether it is the Lord’s will for us to go back or not?"

    "It was a failure to get coal supplies in 1918 that drove us from Brooklyn back to Pittsburgh. Let’s make coal the test. You go and order some coal." [In New York coal was still being rationed at the end of the war.]

    "How many tons do you think I should order to make the test?"

    "Well, make it a good test; order five hundred tons."

    That is just what Brother Wise did. And upon making application to the authorities, he was granted a certificate to get five hundred tons of coal. Immediately he wired J. F. Rutherford. That much coal would ensure operations for a number of years. But where could they put it all? Large sections of the Bethel home’s basement were converted into coal storage space. This successful test was taken as an unmistakable indication that it was God’s will that the move to Brooklyn be made. So it was, as of October 1, 1919.

  • jwblog
    17

    Why do they call it "The Truth" ?

    by jwblog in
    1. jw
    2. friends

    if the "truth" keeps changing shouldn't they call it "in search of the truth"?

    an orange is always an orange, and apple always an apple they do not change.

    so how is it "truth" can change?

    1. moomanchu
    2. knock knock
    3. ringo5
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    For the same reason they call this guy "Tiny"....

  • Aleman
    65

    From the Book of Enoch

    by Aleman in
    1. watchtower
    2. beliefs

    check this:.

    1behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.

    - 1 enoch 2:1.

    1. Aleman
    2. restrangled
    3. sinis
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    I still find pretty amazing that people who are fed, and enjoy, fiction of all kinds daily (through TV, movies, novels and so on) are unable to deal with it reasonably as soon as religion is involved.

    Historical fiction and science fiction are OK, but there is no room for any positive appraisal of religious fiction as such. Somehow it seems that a religious text has to be either literally true, or the deformation of some actual event (even including aliens), or "just bullsh*t".

    With such a frame of mind it would be better indeed not to venture in Ancient Near Eastern texts (and that includes the "Bible").

    I'm surprised for a smart guy you find it amazing. Then again I'm amazed that people use the words "reasonable" and "religion" in the same sentence. Those two words currently are diametrically opposed.

    I'd love a world where if there was religion, it would be viewed a nice distraction to everyday life or even perish the thought, a way to connect humans to humans, not humans to an imaginary man in the sky. Or perhaps if it was viewed as fictional entertainment and a window into the mind of ancient humankind, but unfortunately the majority (if not then a powerful minority) believe their religion is not fiction at all, thank you very much. If the majority of people lumped religious writings in with other works of fiction we'd all be better off to say the least, but I don't see that happening any time soon....
  • jonie
    44

    Sex and JWs I want to know what you think "he played the God Card"

    by jonie in
    1. social
    2. relationships

    i was a jw but left about 8 years ago, my husband wanted to go back so we have tried, i did not do so good.

    being gone so long just helped me realize this is totally false, i look at the jws as lambs being lead to their deaths.. fast forward to now, we are both in our 40s and i have had medical side effects from using birth control and other meds as birth control.

    my body can not take anymore, i have suffered breast cyst and uterus cyst, so i asked my husband who has an issue with using condoms because he does not reach a climax, and has to masturbate, to use something that would offer us a permanent result such as him getting a vasectomy.. his reaction is like why i feel even more strongly that jws are wrong.

    1. hamsterbait
    2. S3RAPH1M
    3. watson
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    No one has yet mentioned a very distinct possibility, he is gay.....

    Sorry, but he wouldn't be the first gay guy to be in a heterosexual marriage pretending to be straight to himself and the world.

  • real one
    76

    Worship The Lord

    by real one in
    1. jw
    2. friends

    praise him all the days of your life!

    he is worthy.

    holy,holy,holy is he.. god our savior showed us how good and kind he is.

    1. Rapunzel
    2. Witness 007
    3. Sad emo
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    praise hym awl de dayz off yore life! he r worthy. holly,hollee,holly r him.
    god oor savior showed us hao gud en kind him bee. he saved us b/c o' him mercy, an nawt cuz ov enee good thikns we mhey hav dun. god washed us bai pwr th' hollee spirit. he gave us gnu birth & fresh beginnin. god snt jesus christ are savior tew giv us hiz spirit. jesus treated us mush bettor tahn we deserve. he made us acceptable 2 god + gave us tehz hoeps of eternal life. titus 3:4-7
    without jesus ins my life, i wud nots b able too function. tew bee n thys world anbd nevs no him iz unimaginable 2 mee. i wud be so depresed i just hateseses too fink were i wud be onley havin tew depend on mi.
    god r our heavenly father. jesus are our lawd and savior. tells mee hao yoo praise him and how grateful ewe are taht yuo knoeses him.

    I took the liberty of translating your post into "jeeesuz script" so possibly more believers would recognize your request and respond.

    http://unintelligencer.com/

  • tula
    32

    UN LIBRARY CARD: What it really means

    by tula in
    1. jw
    2. friends

    would you like to take a peek inside that infamous library?.

    there is a link embedded within this thread that will show you the interior and some amazing things.

    it is like no library you have ever seen.

    1. tula
    2. ringo5
    3. tula
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    Dear Tula:

    We've missed you at our meetings lately, and as you know we need at least 2 or 3 before jesus shows up.

    SIgned OBVES and proplog2

  • ringo5
    3

    God Speaks!

    by ringo5 in
    1. jw
    2. friends

    while looking for some stats on the number of people under psychiatric care that hear god's voice, i came across this.... .

    http://cdbaby.com/cd/godtalks2.

    i don't have much else to add, except god being god and all, he should be available for a mp3 download by now.....

    1. Undecided
    2. Barbie Doll
    3. VoidEater
  • ringo5
    ringo5

    While looking for some stats on the number of people under psychiatric care that hear god's voice, I came across this...

    http://cdbaby.com/cd/godtalks2

    I don't have much else to add, except God being God and all, he should be available for a MP3 download by now....