Terry, thank you for your illustration of the 'squared circle'. I had heard somewhere that most Jews understand the Bible to be made up of, let's call them fables, created for educational purposes. Is it any wonder that so many Jewish people are highly educated AND agnostic/atheist? (at least, that has always been my observation)
fiddler
JoinedPosts by fiddler
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25
Is the story of the Garden of Eden simply a Rabbinical puzzle of SQUARING the circle??
by Terry in1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.
1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.
1.man's nature as homo sapien is to pursue knowledge for survival.
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Kidnaper of 3 Cleveland women - his mom a JW
by Gayle inhttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/castro-brothers-spend-night-jail-article-1.1338131#ixzz2sjzrxozd.
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fiddler
Ariel Castro is an evil scumbag!
I do wonder about his mother's involvement with JW's...........was Ariel ever exposed to the JW element?
For now I feel badly for the mother. What her son chose to do and 'CHOOSE' is a powerful word.............was his choice.
If it comes out that Ariel was raised JW and maybe was abused by a JW............that would present a totally different angle to this conversation. We all know that the
'two witnesses' ruling in the elders manual would protect a child molester and so if the facts come out that Ariel was molested and didn't get proper help then it would add an element to the case................it wouldn't excuse the evil...........but it might put the WT in the spotlight. I bet they are watching this case and probably prompting the members to ber very careful in what they divulge.
.........I don't trust the WT as far as I can throw them as you can surely see.
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July KM - Jehovah's heart scanner in action
by respectful_observer inexcerpt from july 2013 km article "new initiatives for public witnessing".
4 how the witnessing is done: those.
involved in special metropolitan public.
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fiddler
Standing at the table and seeing thousands of people go by each day has impressed upon our hearts the vast work that is being done to reach people all around the world.
They are so not getting it.
Those thousands of people going by........do they look at them? The mothers, and fathers and grandparents? The sons and daughters?
No. What they see are WORLDLY PEOPLE.
The rank and file JW whether they be pioneer or regular publisher refuse to see the general public filing by them as part of the HUMAN FAMILY!
What a bunch of blind fools.
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Cleveland kidnapper's mom is a JW
by just Ron inhttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/castro-brothers-spend-night-jail-article-1.1338131.
down near the bottom of this article, a neighbor of ariel castro's mother reveals that dear old mom is a dub.
bet this won't become a part on a assembly..
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fiddler
I just had a feeling that maybe the JW religion would pop up in this case..........yep.
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Kidnaper of 3 Cleveland women - his mom a JW
by Gayle inhttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/castro-brothers-spend-night-jail-article-1.1338131#ixzz2sjzrxozd.
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fiddler
Wow! I was wondering if JW's or any religious group would show up in the background of these brothers and particularly the one that did the kidnapping and raping and brutalizing of these three girls.
I am not surprized.
Elisabeth Smart had some interesting comments to make as to how these young women could be held for so long without making any attempt at escape.
In 2002, 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her Salt Lake City home, held captive in the mountains, and raped repeatedly for nine months.* Since her escape, she has emerged as an advocate for human trafficking victims—and recently, a critic of abstinence-only sex education. When Smart spoke at a Johns Hopkins University panel last week, she explained one of the factors deterring her from escaping her attacker: She felt so worthless after being raped that she felt unfit to return to her society, which had communicated some hard and fast rules about premarital sexual contact.
“I remember in school one time, I had a teacher who was talking about abstinence,” Smart told the panel. “And she said, ‘Imagine you’re a stick of gum. When you engage in sex, that’s like getting chewed. And if you do that lots of times, you’re going to become an old piece of gum, and who is going to want you after that?’ Well, that’s terrible. No one should ever say that. But for me, I thought, ‘I’m that chewed-up piece of gum.’ Nobody re-chews a piece of gum. You throw it away. And that’s how easy it is to feel you no longer have worth. Your life no longer has value.”
As Jessica Valenti points out, the chewing gum analogy is a typical tactic employed by abstinence-only advocates to try to scare teenagers away from having sex. And while stunts like those are often delivered to coed groups, the messaging falls harder on girls: If one person is the gum, the other person chews. It’s difficult to add a rape exemption to that kind of visual. In the case that you’re abducted, does God lend you a fresh stick
........(the article goes on. Read it)
True, the victims weren't JW but the perpetrator had some of these sick kinds of analogies maybe floating around in his brain.......or maybe the girs had also had the 'abstinence only' mentality.............whatever the case.......they had their power taken away from them by this sicko. I wonder if he ever attended meetings and got the whole 'sex is dirty' vibes. His kind of sex was surely the worst but I wonder.............
I wonder how much religion plays into this.
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Do you go to Kroger/Publix/Wal Mart?
by Iamallcool ini usually shop for most things at wal mart but i have learned some things at publix and kroger are cheaper than wal mart.
if you are conscious shopper, tell me what things do you buy at each store to save some money!
i am thinking about being a member of bj, if you know of any good deals at bj, let me know too.
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fiddler
After reading all this I figured I'd add to my list..........
I shop a lot at Winco as well.......used to work there in bulk foods in the 80's when it was Waremart. The bulk foods has some pretty awesome savings, too.
I also sometimes go to Grocery Outlet. I love it when I find things that were from New Seasons for huge discounts! They also have some great specialty cheeses sometimes.
I have a Costco card and shop there maybe once a month.
Trader Joes is just a fun place to shop and yes they DO have great chocolate!
Last but not least, summer is coming and in summer I try to get all my fresh veggies at the farmers market. Fresh is best!
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Do you go to Kroger/Publix/Wal Mart?
by Iamallcool ini usually shop for most things at wal mart but i have learned some things at publix and kroger are cheaper than wal mart.
if you are conscious shopper, tell me what things do you buy at each store to save some money!
i am thinking about being a member of bj, if you know of any good deals at bj, let me know too.
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fiddler
Fred Meyers is part of the Kroger chain and I've had two kids (one still is an employee there) working for Freddies. I've met so many of the employees through my kids and even attended a 5 year anniversary dinner as a guest of my kid and I got the feeling that it was a very family like company.
I shop there and because of my kids have been informed of some really great sales ~ 70% off sometimes! ~ on various things like Sketchers shoes and also electronics items. If you hit the sales, there are usually some great deals on name brand items. They have a great nutrition center and carry foods for those of us who are trying to eat more healthy at a usually better price than say New Seasons.
I have only shopped at Walmart when I'm out of town visiting my family mostly because it is in walking distance to my mothers place. I don't shop at the Walmart near me because it is just down the road from the Freddies where my son works.........loyalty thing. In Arizona, Fry's is also a Kroger store and they also have the best in fresh veggies (IMO) better by far than Wal-mart!
Guess that's pretty much a vote for Kroger!
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MIL letter to my wife
by AggieNostic inbackground: my wife and i are inactive, we stopped attending in 2005. raised as jws, were pioneers, i was elder etc... .
our kids are in college, also inactive but are baptised.
my wife went back to college, getting her degree this month at age 48!
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fiddler
I have read through all 4 pages of this thread. The fact that it has accumulated 4 pages in such a short period of time speaks loudly that this is a very common problem for a lot of us.
With the advent of all the electronic means of communication, texting and such has become the preferred way of communication and although I love the new technologies, it sure has allowed our JW families to 'hit and run' at times with this emotional blackmail stuff.
I'm glad that your family member is still communicating with you and hopefully you will be able to take the high road and show through your own life and conduct how real family love is shown.
The one thing that I have found that makes it so hard to respond to JW family and friends is their fall back on the name of Jehovah. The initial letter you received had a few points I noted but the first and most conversation stopping point was:
"the most important part of that was teaching you the truth about Jehovah"
I would personally love to be able to challenge that statement with documentation from people who've devoted their lives to studying ancient peoples and their religions as well as the translating of books like the Bible...........actual scholars........people with more than a high school level of education. How many of the current (or even past) members of the governing body have educations that would qualify them to teach 'the truth about Jehovah"?
None, I dare say.
That poor lady taught you all what a Bible publishing agency told her to teach............not truth. Jehovah is their corporate logo for all intents and purposes.
I still believe that there is a higher power out there but I don't for one moment believe it is the angry, psychopathic god of the ancient Israelites, Jehovah. If that god was put through a battery of psychological test I'm quite sure he'd come out as a very 'mentally diseased' god!
Then there is the problem JW's have with equating in their minds that Jehovah=Watchtower=governing body=their own personal identity. To say anything against JEHOVAH just blows them completely apart. Someone here has an avatar from the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"
Such an apt depiction of a JW's reaction to saying anything even slightly against their precious god.
I learned that the very hard way.
Good luck with your family and congrats on your wife's degree. Well done!
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What's in a name? - Israel wasn't for Yaweh !
by snare&racket inwho the el' is el' ?.
the original god of israel was el, not yahweh, as is evident in the patriarchal narratives: the name isra-el means el rules, not yahweh rules that would be isra-yahu.
(bellah, 2011, p. 287).
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fiddler
I agree that the story of Moses in the Bible is a mish mash of older stories that were already in the Egyptian tradition (and other ancient traditions like that of King Sargon). The story of the baby being drawn from the rushes by a princess (or goddess) for instance was already around.
The family of Pharaohs of the line of Thutmoses, i.e. of King Tut fame, were real people in history their mummy's being on display to see. I've always found the Thutmoses and Moses name similarities curious. One family member of that line, Akhenaten (who's mummy has never been found.........he's referred to as the heretic Pharaoh) introduced a mono theistic religion based on sun worship (the At en). Of his mummified family members that have been found, one of interest is his grandfather Yuya. Although not of royal origins but married to one of the Tutankhamen line, he was buried in royal tombs AND FOUND! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuya It Author Ahmed Osman wrote a compelling book suggesting that Yuya was indeed Joseph of the Bible. I really enjoyed reading that book Hebrew Pharaohsof Egypt although not agreeing with all his ideas.....still compelling.
(There was no correlation made with the Ya in Yu-ya's named but I noted it.)
Both Yuya and Joseph of the Bible were said to be masters of the chariots and 'Father to a pharoah'............coincidence? Maybe. The main point that detractors made about this idea is that the Bible says that Joseph's remains were exhumed and returned to the land of his forefathers and Yuya was found in Egypt. Well................I say the writer of that little piece of fiction hardly imagined that the mummy might be found 3,000 years later in Egypt!
So, if after several hundred years have gone by and some old Jewish older man at the gates wants to tell a fable to establish some point to his listeners of interconnectedness or whatever...........he only needs a general framework and from there weaves the tale. Those Bible writers I'm pretty sure had no thoughts whatsoever about who might be reading or telling the tales 3,000 years later.
Even if Yuya was not Joseph, the story of his and his wive Tuya's discovery is fascinating!
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Apocryphal Books of the Bible
by nativenyr23 inwas watching a history channel program last night (yeah, i'm a history channel geek!
) and was introduced for the first time in my life to the apocryphal books of the bible?!?!?!?!?
omg....fascinating.
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fiddler
"The Other Bible" is my absolute favorite! There are some others, but I recommend these as the basis of your library and then if you are interested in a specific book you can find something written just on that--like any of Elaine Pagels stuff on the gnostic texts. Good Luck! It was my first tantalizing step into the great big world back when I first left JWs. But I warn you---it is the red pill---you will never look at things the same way again!
So true, so true! In the Second Book of Enoch it tells of Enoch entering into the levels of heaven and the third heaven being paradise.
FINALLY I could make sense of Paul's little 'trip' into the third heaven! (2 Cor. 12:2 - 4) No wonder he went on and on about 'not meaning to boast'. I never could figure out how that was boasting ~ just weird It would seem that the writings about Enoch were common knowledge back in the first century.
Yes, the Bible is so woefully incomplete.
