What's in a name? - Israel wasn't for Yaweh !

by snare&racket 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Who the El' is El' ?

    The original God of Israel was El, not Yahweh, as is evident in the patriarchal narratives: the name Isra-el means “El rules,” not “Yahweh rules” – that would be Isra-yahu.” (Bellah, 2011, p. 287)

    “The original god of Israel was El.” (Smith, 2002, p. 32)

    “The original Israelites were mostly Canaanites ... and the original God of Israel was El, as the name Israel indicates. El was a high god of the Canaanite pantheon; Asherah was his consort.” (Doorly, 1997, p. 28)

    “In the earliest phase of Israelite religion it would seem that religion was predominantly a matter of the family or the clan. The settlers of the central hill country lived in self-contained and largely self-sufficient communities ... Family religion was focused on the god of the settlement. This god was the patron of the leading family and, by extension, of the local clan and the settlement. Allegiance to the clan god was concomitant with membership of the clan. The clan god was commonly a god of the Canaanite pantheon, El and Baal being the most commonly worshipped.” (van der Toorn, 1996, p. 254)

    “The shape of this religious spectrum in early Israel changed, due in large measure to two major developments; the first was convergence, and the second was differentiation. Convergence involved the coalescence of various deities and/or some of their features into the figure of Yahweh. This development began in the period of the Judges and continued during the first half of the monarchy. At this point, El and Yahweh were identified, and perhaps Asherah no longer continued as an identifiably separate deity. Features belonging to deities such as El, Asherah, and Baal were absorbed into the Yahwistic religion of Israel...... The second major process involved the differentiation of Israelite cult from its “Canaanite” heritage. Numerous features of early Israelite were later rejected as “Canaanite” and non-Yahwistic. This development apparently began first with the rejection of Baal worship in the ninth century, continued in the eighth to sixth centuries with legal and prophetic condemnations of Baal worship, the Asherah, solar worship, the high places, practices pertaining to the dead, and other religious features. The two major developments of convergence and differentiation shaped the contours of the distinct monotheism that Israel practiced and defined in the Exile (ca. 587-538) following the days of the Judean monarchy.” (Smith, 2002, pp. 7-9)

    “But surely Israel was characterized by a distinct religion, long before the monarchy – think of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, much less Moses. For decades the idea of religious distinctiveness in early Israel has steadily eroded. Yahweh, it seems, is not the original God of Israel, but a latecomer, arriving from, of all places, Edom, and generally identified with the south: not only Edom but Midian, Paran, Seir, and Sinai (Judges 5:4; Habakkuk 3:3; Psalm 68:8, 17). The original God of Israel was El, not Yahweh, as is evident in the patriarchal narratives: the name Isra-el means “El rules,” not “Yahweh rules” – that would be Isra-yahu.” (Bellah, 2011, p. 287)

    According to The Oxford Companion to World Mythology’

    It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'... If El was the high god of Abraham - Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh - Asherah was his wife, and there are archeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the 7th century BCE. (See 2 Kings 23:15 )

    You think the god of the universe or his son would mention this little error.........

    Calling your people the Isra-EL-ites and/or allowing them to keep a name rendered to another god seems a bit oxymoronic. Nevermind calling the land of your people Isra-el and reffering to a new heavenly Isra-el .

    El-ohim, El'i.... they all derive from El'. E'l became the word for GOD as E'l was he father of all gods. Reading a few papers, the later Jews basically conglomerated all the traits of the gods of El and below and reffered to him as Eli or "god".

    They also refer to god (Eli) as YWHW.Amazingl YHWH is a sentence that means " El who is present, who makes himself manifest"

    What utter garbage the pseudo-history fed us was. The world needs more libraries !

    With a bit of knowledge God is dead he has gone straigh to El'.......... el-o-el

    Snare x

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    LOL (how many El jokes can we fit into this thread i wonder).

    Monotheism? Things that make you hmmmm.

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Quite a few scholars assert that Moses was the one that introduced Yahweh worship to the Israelites. Yahweh was one of the gods going around, but Moses would establish monotheism, i.e., worship of Yahweh.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    How many Christians know that ISRA-EL, is a reference to a cananite god?

    Or Yaweh which means " El who is present, who makes himself manifest"

    JW: "What's gods name?"

    Anyone with access to Google:.....

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    "Quite a few scholars assert that Moses was the one that introduced Yahweh worship to the Israelites"

    So, what are you saying? Moses went to El in a handbasket? He was found in a basket in the Ni-El River, right?

    Is this why Christians, at Christmas time, sing "No El, No El" ?

    snare&aracket: el-o-el Good one!

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Vidqun..... [sigh].....

    You just make shit up. El was before Yaweh, long before. El and Yaweh is the same person. Lie to yourself all you want, have fun explaining to yourself how Jehovah (lol) was content with his people calling themselves Isa-EL-ites, or his promised land Isra-EL.

    Can you show ONE reference to what you said, one paper? One scholar? One piece of evidence...... just one? JUST ONE ?

    There is NO evidence of any Moses EVER existing. So no scholar has ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER had evidence for that. A biblical or christian scholar MAY hypothesise that based on the embarassment that El was worshipped and all of the sudden is compelled to appease the broken biblical narrative. Of course it doesnt explain who Adam, Eve, Enoch, Noah etc worshiped if YHWH was not invented until Moses. But then again, we know gods, cities, nations, peoples, religion etc existed before the biblical adam... so it's a mute point.

    Moses

    A Jew raised a prince in the palaces of Egypt that then commited murder and became a sheep herder, that then challenged the Pharoh directly, led a revolution and freed the slaves from the then world power, only to see Pharoh and his army drowned by a miracle.... yet no historical evidence AT ALL.

    Yeah funny that SCHOLARS don't believe in this Jewish super hero. They dont believe in Samson or Clark Kent either.

    There is not even a SHRED of evidence that David existed or that the tribes were ever united. These charachters were not even written about until thousands of years later (to the biblical history), this is all well known. Moses was invented in 7th century Judah.

    These bible charachters are the Jewish 'Robin Hoods' and 'King Arthurs'.

    Before you mention references to Moses by Jews..... sigh....

    We have historical reference to robin hood and king arthur, we also have historical reference to King George killing a Dragon. All bullshit, but people talked about it. In a thousand years people will find evidence of a mass cultural knowledge of 'Bilbo Baggins'.... "It is evident that Bilbo was known throughout the globe in ancient times circa 2006."

    So been as there is no reference to Moses until centuries after, when religious priests wrote the OT, do you really believe Scholars give this ficitional man the mantle of introducing YHWH? BY WHAT EVIDENCE? IF THERE IS NONE THAT EVEN HE EXISTED !!!!

    MAking shit up, comes so easy to some people. In one corner, science and scholars devote their lives to a theory, gathering evidence and facts. In the other corner, people make shit up on the spot and think is has equal value.....

    Snare x

  • Newly Enlightened
    Newly Enlightened

    Maybe we should just call him "El-o Hey You, great spirit in the sky"

    or:

    El o El o

    El o El o I love you, won't you tell me your name

    . El o El o I love you, can I join in your game." [60's Song by the Doors]

  • Newly Enlightened
    Newly Enlightened

    I think I put a few too many El-o's in there.

  • mP
    mP

    s&r

    The God of Abraham was El Shaddai. It says so in Ex 3. How or why Jehovah didnt reveal his "true" name to Abraham is amazing. The simple fact is the Israelites had zillions of Gods. The only consistant fact is the priests wanted all the money and dancing girls for themselves. The God they worshipped may have changed but they themselves greedily always wanted their priestly tax.

  • mP
    mP

    vidqun

    Quite a few scholars assert that Moses was the one that introduced Yahweh worship to the Israelites. Yahweh was one of the gods going around, but Moses would establish monotheism, i.e., worship of Yahweh.

    mP:

    MOses didnt introduce monotheism. THe jews believed in many gods, they were only supposed to worship one. Monotheism means belief in one god, which is different from monolarity whichi s worship of one god which is what actually appears in the bible.

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