artful

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Posts by artful

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  8

  A *MUST WATCH* Short Film

  by AvailableLight in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for everyone w/ high-speed connections:.

  check this out:.

  http://64.152.216.82:80/7/1275/6955/3c8cf24a/rshort.download.akamai.com/1589/windows/t/the_parlor_l_dsl.wmv.

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  artful

  This is excellent! LOL

  thanks for the link
  artful
• 
  34

  "This generation" started in 1948.

  by refiners fire in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  among all those "born again" christian fundies, the general concensus is that the end time generation commenced in 1948.. here is their reasoning espoused by two of their prophetic writers, norman robertson and hal lindsey.. christ gave his great "last days" discourse in matthew 24, stating that "this generation would by no means pass away" before all was fullfilled.. matthew 24v 32,33 states:.

  ..."now learn from the fig tree as an illustration of this point.

  just as soon as you see its young branches grow tender and it puts forth leaves , you know that summer is near.likewise when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.

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  artful

  I understand your point Tom, but....

  if a prophet (or interpreter) claims that 'THIS IS the meaning of Ezekiel's prophetic word, or THIS IS Ezekiel's promise' - given that Ezekiel (or any other bible writer) is 'speaking for God', doesn't that amount to the same thing as saying that this is 'God's prophetic word'? And if that is so, then aren't they by extension 'speaking for God'? Unless there is a disclaimer of 'this is my interpretation, or this could mean that...etc' then isn't the interpreter saying that 'this is what God said'?

  Although the WTS does add these disclaimers now, I think that the difference between the WTS and Lindsey is that even with a disclaimer, the WTS adherents are expected to fully except their interpretations (as if from God). Failure to do so would mean the threat of expulsion and subsequent loss of opportunity for salvation. I don't think that Hal Lindsey makes such claims.

  Good points about the WTS by the way

  cheers
  artful
• 
  34

  "This generation" started in 1948.

  by refiners fire in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  among all those "born again" christian fundies, the general concensus is that the end time generation commenced in 1948.. here is their reasoning espoused by two of their prophetic writers, norman robertson and hal lindsey.. christ gave his great "last days" discourse in matthew 24, stating that "this generation would by no means pass away" before all was fullfilled.. matthew 24v 32,33 states:.

  ..."now learn from the fig tree as an illustration of this point.

  just as soon as you see its young branches grow tender and it puts forth leaves , you know that summer is near.likewise when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.

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  artful

  I think maybe you are splitting hairs here NM.

  RF's point of a false prophet is well made. By transferring Ezekiel's authority onto himself (Ezekiel being a prophet of God), Lindsey is extending himself as one God's prophets. Lindsey puts himself in the role of God's prophet. Therefore, when his pronouncements prove false, he becomes a false prophet. Why the splitting of hairs?

  Even the WT doesn't say that they 'speak directly for God' and yet there is no problem pronouncing them as a false prophet (and rightly so).

  cheers
  artful
• 
  17

  From the Archives of JT #1

  by JT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  over the years of being on the net there are always some post that just stand out more than others.

  there is a guy not sure where he is from but his name is norm, - this guy has no idea the role he played in my leaving wt.

  according to the watchtower, when has there not been "a time of urgency.

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  artful

  The 'special talk' is normally delivered to the dubs the week after the memorial. This year it is entitled: 'Keep Close in Mind the "Fear Inspiring Day"!'.
  an outline of it can be found at http://observer.org/

  'Events that Make up the sign of Christ's Presence' is a section that makes up about 1/3 of the talk. This focuses mainly on the 'Composite Sign' misinformation...with the removal of 'this generation' I guess the 'CS' is all they have left to whip the dubs into a frenzy!

  cheers
  artful
• 
  17

  From the Archives of JT #1

  by JT in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  over the years of being on the net there are always some post that just stand out more than others.

  there is a guy not sure where he is from but his name is norm, - this guy has no idea the role he played in my leaving wt.

  according to the watchtower, when has there not been "a time of urgency.

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  artful

  JT.

  Great post. This ties in nicely with the upcoming JW 'Special Talk' which the speaker is instructed to 'build up a sense of urgency in the brothers'

  happy man.

  You are correct that there is much positive to be found in JW teachings. The same of course can be said of the basic beliefs of many religions.

  You are also very correct in saying that JWs are 'UNIK' and that 'we are all the same,same belife,same goal'.

  However, that fact that large number of people can be convinced to latch on to a belief system doesn't necessarily make it correct (see crownboys reference to Hitler). Take the time to analyze the tenets and decide for yourself.

  cheers
  artful
• 
  41

  REUNION WITH JW SIS AFTER 20 YRS OF SHUNNING

  by California Sunshine in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  today is mar 25th.

  ive decided to write about this and post it when im done.

  dont know when that will be.

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  artful

  Great story California.

  I had tears in my eyes as I read it. Coming from a large family of divided beliefs I really appreciated hearing about your great reunion!

  Don't give up hope. Blood can be stronger than misguided faith!

  cheers
  artful
• 
  27

  Why the disrespect for Jesus?

  by MavMan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now i understand completely that most in this forum are 100% against jws and the watchtower.

  what i don't understand is the disrespect that has been shown for such a sacred occasion that is the memorial (last supper).

  whether you agree with jws or not, the fact is that the last supper has a lot of meaning for christians.

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  artful

  Hear, hear, JeffT and Andyman. You've got it right on!

  cheers
  artful
• 
  4

  I didn't go!

  by artful in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, for the first time in 30 years i didn't go to the memorial.. it's actually a given me a great sense of relief!.

  i hope that this is beginning of a long and happy relationship with god!

  up until this past year i wasn't even sure if he existed.

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  artful

  Well, for the first time in 30 years I didn't go to the memorial.

  It's actually a given me a great sense of relief!

  I hope that this is beginning of a long and happy relationship with God!

  Up until this past year I wasn't even sure if he existed. Maybe I have finally found some peace with it all...I hope so.

  I would like to wish everyone a very happy weekend.
  Thank you friends for all of your support (whether you realize it or not, many of you on this board have been a great support to me).

  thank you all
  cheers
  artful
• 
  24

  Going to the Memorial Tonight? Whose Partaking?

  by Reborn2002 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was curious if anyone on this website is going to the jw memorial tonight?.

  is anyone partaking?.

  personal webpage-.

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  artful

  ly4fer.

  Check out the threads I posted above on the 'new covenant' which the JWs claim only 8,700 are part of. There is some very good reasoning there.

  Drink up!
  artful
• 
  24

  Going to the Memorial Tonight? Whose Partaking?

  by Reborn2002 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was curious if anyone on this website is going to the jw memorial tonight?.

  is anyone partaking?.

  personal webpage-.

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  artful

  Great timing Reborn2002, I had just logged in to ask the same question!

  I have not missed one since I was 5 yrs old...30 years ago. I am torn between two thoughts:

  1. To go out of love and respect for my JW wife...even though we have just spent many hours reasoning on the 'new covenant' issue and that ALL must fall under it to attain salvation...which point she conceeds scripturally. See discussion on this at:
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=24261&site=3 and
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=23818&site=3

  OR

  2. To NOT GO because I don't want to support an organization that propagates such a lie. I would rather the WTS stats read that 11,686,200 attended in 2002 not 11,686,201. I have a few more hours to decide...just enough time to head to the local watering hole to have my own 'memorial' celebration.

  cheers
  artful