AlanF

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Posts by AlanF

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  6

  Anyone near Denver?

  by troubled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi,.

  i'm curious is anybody posting here lives near the denver area, like i do.

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  AlanF

  Hi troubled,

  Yeah, my family is in Fort Collins. Call me if you like, 970-206-1555 at home tonight.

  AlanF
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  133

  BERRY LAWSUIT EVALUATED

  by MadApostate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would like to preface my discussion of the recently filed berry lawsuit with several remarks.

  first, i am not an attorney, and my only connection with the legal profession is that which occasionally arises out of my personal or business affairs.

  second, i have no access to court records, opinions, etc., other than what is available via internet search engines.

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  AlanF

  I think you're a Watchtower troll. Are you from Legal, or are they just your handlers?

  A law firm such as has taken on this case would not do so unless there were a high probability of winning. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, there will be a good deal of adverse publicity that will tend to show JW leaders for what they are -- conscienceless men who seek only their own advantage.

  AlanF
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  44

  Monomaniacal Ex-JWs?

  by dunsscot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  its been a while since i read stephen r. covey's _the 7 habits of highly effective people_ and i do not feel like looking up the section i am getting ready to mention.

  but i think i recall covey talking about the unhealthy habit of becoming overly engrossed in one activity or pursuit.. it seems that there are individuals using this medium of communication whose life's aim is to "help" jws out of the "borg" or 'bring down the tower.

  if it tricks your trigger, i guess there is nothing anyone can do to prevent you from "helping" jws out of the "borg.

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  AlanF

  To dunsscot:

  : ... But I think I recall Covey talking about the unhealthy habit of becoming overly engrossed in one activity or pursuit.

  Kind of like becoming a Jee-Hoover Witness, eh?

  : It seems that there are individuals using this medium of communication whose life's aim is to "help" JWs out of the "borg" or 'bring down the Tower.'

  That is true.

  : If it tricks your trigger, I guess there is nothing anyone can do to prevent you from "helping" JWs out of the "borg."

  Freedom of religion and all that, eh?

  : But I wonder if some here have not become monomaniacal in their deconstructive methodology.

  Kind of like the Jee-Hoover Witnesses, eh?

  : They just cannot seem to let JWs enjoy freedom of worship.

  Kind of like Jee-Hoover Witnesses don't let anyone else enjoy freedom of worship, eh?

  : They must interfere in the religious life of JWs.

  Kind of like Jee-Hoover Witnesses interfere in the religious lives of others, eh?

  : Yet what do they have to offer in return?

  Freedom from being in a cult, for starters. Freedom to think for oneself, too. Ah, blessed freedom!

  : Nothing, except believe what you want to or drink yourself half silly everyday and conduct a life governed by hedonic utility that is devoid of God.

  How sad that that's all you've learned from your time on this board. The fact is that ex-JWs on this forum are as varied in their styles of life as any other non-JWs are. Very few are advocating any particular life style. The fact that many tell about their life styles, or comment on various life styles, is in no way advocating such.

  : Furthermore, maybe some of you here have convinced yourself that the Bible is false, God does not exist,

  Those are things that cannot be proved or disproved absolutely.

  What's your point?

  : and Jehovah's Witnesses are not God's people.

  That's a fact that has been proved in hundreds of different ways. For example, JWs unscripturally use excommunication and shunning as a weapon. They often use it against people whose only offense is to disagree with JWs, sometimes even on minor issues. An organization that has misused its power like this for some 70 years, over and over and over again, is detestable to God, according to Scriptures you know very well.

  : But I think that if I ever left JWs, I would put faith in Acts 5:35-39.

  Here you've stepped through thin ice. It has been proved beyond doubt that JWs are not "of God". Assuming God exists and acts on mankind's behalf, how do you think he acts? The Bible indicates that it's through various people. False religious organizations are exposed through the actions of people. Do you object to that? If so, then you can stop preaching the JW message right now.

  Let's give a concrete example. Suppose you had been raised since birth in a Christian sect that practices free sex with children (don't bother arguing that such a sect isn't really Christian; you'd be missing the point). Suddenly you realize that this practice is wrong, and you get out. You realize that your religious leaders have been practicing pedophilia for years. What will you do? Leave them to God? Or do everything in your power to expose them and stop the molestation?

  : History has certainly borne out the truthfulness of this passage.

  How?

  : Any work that is the result of man will fail, plain and simple: It will be exposed as a work of man.

  That is a truth so self-evident that it doesn't need to be said. However, some organizations are extremely long-lived. How do you know which ones today, new or old, are purely the "work of man"? Longevity and existence are not indicators, as the Watchtower Society correctly teaches.

  : But if God is the author of the said work, you will not be able to overthrow it, but will in fact be found fighters against God.

  Fine in principle; impossible to test in practice. If you disagree, then devise a test.

  And again, you as a JW today may already be in this position with respect to any number of other organizations. Can you prove with certainty, for example, that United Bible Societies is not "of God"?

  : But I end with my original question. Are some ex-JWs monomaniacal?

  Monomania implies either mental illness or excessive focus. Some ex-JWs therefore, are certainly monomaniacal, just as some of all people are. Most on this board are simply focused. You have a problem with that? Are you prepared to define "excessive focus" or "mental illness"? If you try, watch out that your definitions don't point straight back at you and your friends.

  : I sure know that my buddy Dave is not.

  No, he's just maniacal.

  AlanF
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  7

  Where does an elder's loyalty lie?

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you are wondering where the elders' real interests lie, please consider this statement:.

  true shepherds recognize that during these last days, jesus has appointed his faithful and discreet slave over all his belongings and that holy spirit has directed this slave in appointing elders for the shepherding of the sheep.

  hence, being theocratic involves having a deep respect for this slave, for the organizational arrangements that the slave has instituted, and for the elder arrangement within the congregation.

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  AlanF

  The Society's comment about "having a deep respect for this slave" translates in practice to 'having loyalty to JW leaders that supercedes loyalty to God and the Bible'.

  This is the Society's way of stating the Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses: You must treat JW leaders as if God himself were speaking.

  Any elder who actually shows loyalty to the Bible over loyalty to the Society will be quickly removed, and if he makes that loyalty known publicly, will be disfellowshipped.

  AlanF
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  57

  Doubt Not!

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i thought you might like to see a fax i just sent to j. r. brown.

  you can also pick it up on the front page of the website, you may also read and download the complaint that states the basis of this lawsuit.

  run wt run...... silentlambs.

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  AlanF

  Alright! I hope the victims and their attorney see this through to a full conclusion, and don't accept the usual Watchtower out-of-court settlement along with a gag order. This needs to be publicized!

  AlanF
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  49

  30 and Out?

  by Black Man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  30 that seems to put jw's at a cross-roads?

  i've known so many who have decided to abandon ship at either the age of 30 or either after 30 years of being baptized.

  i fall into the former category.

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  AlanF

  After I reached 26 I got increasingly uncomfortable with JW teachings about the end of the world and science. A year later I went to college, became inactive, and pretty much put things on hold until I was done. At college my misgivings increased, when I tried to verify the Society's claim that earthquakes had drastically increased in the 20th century. I also discovered that many source references were misrepresented in Society publications. A year and half after leaving college I became inactive permanently, at age 32.

  AlanF
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  6

  Are the GB Criminals?

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are the gb criminals?

  in some of my recent posts i have used this expression to describe the 'moral' aspect of the gb.

  the question is why?

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  AlanF

  Are men who deliberately fail to report the rape of a child to proper authorities criminals? Are men who actively cover over gross wrongdoing on the part of their close buddies, but actively pursue other wrongdoers criminals?

  I think the answer is obvious.

  AlanF
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  8

  Is this a paradox, or what?

  by Mulan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many of you know that i have a good friend, who is still a dub, and her husband is an elder.

  they both talk to us, and i see her all the time, and talk to her everyday.

  she called this morning to tell me about the dinner they had last night with some old friends.

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  AlanF

  This kind of story is common. It illustrates the truth that JWs don't follow the Bible or God, but the Watchtower Society. Loyalty to the Society is everything, and expressions of loyalty cover a multitude of sins. The only unforgivable sin is disloyalty -- not to God, but the Society.

  AlanF
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  1

  Douglas Walsh Trial

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anyone know if the full transcripts are online?.

  the pieces i have read are fascinating!!!.

  thanks

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  AlanF

  You can order the full transcript here:

  Witness, Inc.
  22687 SE Howlett
  Eagle Creek, OR 97022

  AlanF
• 
  13

  Civility

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is it necessary to resort to the schoolyard talk and name-calling every time someone says something, which is in disagreement with you, or is something you don't agree with?.

  interestingly, some of the more "knowledgeable" persons on here seem do be the first to resort to these measures.

  do they feel like they are better than the next person?.

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  AlanF

  I still have reservations about your simultaneous use of two identities, msil.

  Just exactly how did your two identities come to be on chat at the same time? Was it you logged in on two different computers? Or what? If so, why did you do that? If not, and if the other identitity was being used by someone else, how did he get your password, and who was it?

  There are a number of other problematic situations you'll have to explain before I, for one, will accept that you're who you appear to claim to be.

  AlanF