Posts by OrphanCrow

162

Lorenz Reibling gives interview about real estate

by OrphanCrow in

this interview was posted april 16, 2015 on youtube.

lorenz reibling's replies to the reporter in argentina are in english.. lorenz reibling is intimately connected to the watchtower society and, according to some sources, is a jw himself.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ssa-9yvii.

so who is lorenz reibling?

OrphanCrow

Here is some information that I had uncovered back in 2010, 5 years ago, that is pertinent to this thread.

It is clear that the WTS has JW friends that are heavily invested in realestate, construction/development, investments, and the bloodless market. To throw another monkey wrench onto the pile, the following information may prove interesting.

In this old post of 2010, the link to the profile of Alexander McMillan (an Australian JW) no longer works. This is a new one: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/alexander-mcmillan/44/950/aa8 but some of the material that I copied back in 2010 is not on his updated profile.

*****

This is from a public professional profile of a fellow from Australia by the name of Alexander McMillan. (text color change is mine...)

Summary of Expertise:
Training and Documentation Consultant
Alex is an experienced training consultant and Instructional Designer - a seasoned professional who focuses in on improving communication skills at all levels of the business environment.

His training and consulting experience spans a variety of industries including: financial services, mining, transport, insurance, government, printing & publishing, IT, telecommunications, horticulture and healthcare.

Areas of expertise and experience include the following:
Needs analysis and writing of technical documentation, training manuals and
Policy & Procedure manuals and Presenter's guides - diverse subject matter
Flowcharting of processes & procedures. Analysis of business policies/processes.
Train the Trainer programs on business communication and presentation

This is listed in his past experience and past employers:

- Management Training at Teamwork Consulting
- Instructional Design at Westpac Banking Corporation
- Oracle writing at Sydney Airport Corporation
- Training and Documentation at TACTICS Consulting Pty Ltd
- Systems Training at Telstra
- Technical Writing at Coles Myer Liquorland
- Technical Writer at Allianz Insurance
- Instructional Design at everis
- Business Communication & Technical Writing at Watchtower Legal NY
- Senior Technical Coordinator at Legal Department of Watchtower Society

More details about his employment at the Watchtower Society:

Business Communication & Technical Writing
Watchtower Legal NY
(Information Technology and Services industry)
August 1998 — March 1999 (8 months)
Senior Technical Coordinator
Legal Department of Watchtower Society
(Information Technology and Services industry)
January 1987 — January 1992 (5 years 1 month)
preparing documentation and conducting seminars on writing skills
Design and write 32-page plain English brochure on Charitable Planning and its
relationship to Government tax laws. Distributed throughout U.S.
Coordination and production of seminar materials, PowerPoint presentation
and Presenter's notes for Public Affairs Office for worldwide distribution; Technical Illustrators & Co. W.A.
Public relations role: liaison between client and company
Project management - coordinator of major documentation projects
Writing, artwork and production of Occupational Health and Safety manuals, Operations and Maintenance Manuals. Site visits to mines
Writing of corporate brochure and advertising materials
Achievements: Documentation project management (team of four) for new
CRA iron ore mine commissioning in the Pilbara region. Eighteen-month project.
Analysis, writing and editing with a resultant comprehensive range
of operating and procedure manuals for Channar Iron Ore mine

16

Synthetic Blood in 2 Years? How Will the GB Shoot This Down?

by DarioKehl in

interesting read.

if they already allow "fractions," there's no way they can ban this.. here:www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-to-give-volunteers-synthetic-blood-made-in-a-laboratory-within-two-years-10343279.html.

OrphanCrow

I don't think that the WTS will be in favour of this kind of "synthetic blood".

They will say that it is prohibited because the source that is used to make the product is human blood.

As far as stem cells go, Jehovah's Witnesses have been treated with stem cell transplantation for years already.

For example, in 2004, the American Society of Clinical oncology published a study that treated 26 Jehovah's Witnesses with autologous stem cell transplantation.

Autologous Stem-Cell Transplantation Can Be Performed Safely Without the Use of Blood
Purpose Autologous stem-cell transplantation has been shown to be a curative procedure for a variety of leukemias and lymphomas. Most transplants require RBC and platelet support. We report the ability to perform autologous transplantation without blood-product support.
Subjects and Methods In this study, we treated 26 patients with religious objection to blood products with autologous stem-cell support without the use of any blood products. Patients received a combination of granulocyte colony-stimulating factor (G-CSF), erythropoietin, and interleukin-11 or G-CSF alone to mobilize stem cells. Post-transplant patients received intravenous iron, erythropoietin, G-CSF, and epsilon aminocaproic acid.
Results There were two major bleeding complications (8%), with two treatment-related deaths (8%). There were three minor bleeding complications (12%). The median fall in hemoglobin level was 4.7 g/dL; the median hemoglobin level 30 days after transplantation was 9.2 g/dL. The median total number of days with platelet count less than 10 × 109/L was 4 days; the median days to platelet recovery greater than 20 × 109/L was 12 days.
Conclusion Autologous stem-cell transplantation can be performed safely without the use of any blood products.

And a 2015 study published in the same journal:

Autologous Stem-Cell Transplantation Without Hematopoietic Support for the Treatment of Hematologic Malignancies in Jehovah's Witnesses

It appears that as long as the stem cell treatment does not use blood as a source, stem cell transplantation is not prohibited for Jehovah's Witnesses.

bafh: So technically, they are "manufactured" in that they came from a lab - but they are still blood cells. So my vote is they don't allow it even if it didn't come from a person or animal.

Hemopure, the synthetic blood (oxygen carrier/blood doping agent) made from bovine blood, is manufactured in a lab. Hemopure has WTS approval.

This one won't pass simply because the source is human blood. (and it might have something to do with the JWs who have interests in Hemopure).

39

Jehovah's Witness woman refuses blood, then dies.

by Lee Elder in

another jehovah's witness woman has died while giving birth due to massive blood loss and refusing a blood transfusion.

she leaves nine children behind.

she finally consented to the transfusion but it was too late to save her.

OrphanCrow

vidiot: ..the life-saving potential for artificial transfusable blood is undeniable, but the WTS could potentially benefit from itso much (both ideologically and financially)

Yes, it is conflicting. The benefits of artificial blood are undeniable. However, those benefits do not extend to the exclusive use of artificial blood to sustain life. It is invaluable when blood is in short supply or a distance away - it is often used to keep somebody alive until they can access what really works - real blood.

In the meantime, it doesn't perform as well as real blood does. The WTS and the noblood propaganda, that is proliferated by those associated with the WTS, concentrates on the adverse reactions that are possible with real blood transfusions. What they neglect to say, though, is that adverse reactions when using Hemopure, occur more often than when using allogenic blood..

They always demonize real blood, and never reveal that artificial blood is riskier than allogenic blood.

The WTS, and the JW blood societies, misrepresent the facts about blood.

millie: When it comes to backing up what you post....
you really bring it!

Damn you, Millie! Lol! Now I had to go and find what I needed to back up my claim. I had to dig really deep.

From the wayback machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20101209175544/http://www.bloodmanagement.org/content/blogsection/26/155

The Society for the Advancement of Blood Management (a JW society - the "father" of all other blood management societies) was targeting the following countries as far back as 2005: China, Croatia, Australia, New Zealand, Austria, Latvia and Namibia, Africa.

*And the JW blood boys were in Russia, too. Funny how the company that manufactures Hemopure moved to Russia right at the time that the WTS was trying to get legal status as a religion. When the WTS didn't get religious status, coincidentally, Biopure moved their main operations back to the States. Makes a person go hmmmmm, doesn't it?

39

Jehovah's Witness woman refuses blood, then dies.

by Lee Elder in

another jehovah's witness woman has died while giving birth due to massive blood loss and refusing a blood transfusion.

she leaves nine children behind.

she finally consented to the transfusion but it was too late to save her.

OrphanCrow

millie: I can see this really taking off in African countries where there is so much fear of contamination in the blood supply which is scarce already.

Bloodless medicine and blood management is already established in many African locations. Shannon Farmer, and other JWs, have been grooming the African blood market for years*. Bloodless medicine is already there.

South Africa was the first country to give approval for artificial blood. Africa is a great market for alternative blood medicine.

(fun trivia fact - the industry that profited the most from the AIDs epidemic is the bloodless industry.)

* I have the documentation to support this...just not sure where it is right now... :)

162

Lorenz Reibling gives interview about real estate

by OrphanCrow in

this interview was posted april 16, 2015 on youtube.

lorenz reibling's replies to the reporter in argentina are in english.. lorenz reibling is intimately connected to the watchtower society and, according to some sources, is a jw himself.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ssa-9yvii.

so who is lorenz reibling?

OrphanCrow

Back to the money trail and more about Reibling and his investment strategies and concerns.

Taurus/ReiblingBros. was involved in the Assembly Square project in Boston. From a 2006 article:

In the fall of 1999, Assembly Square Limited Partners (ASLP) faced two serious problems. They had bought the mall property with $300,000 in cash and a one-year, $18.5 million loan that was due in October. But they could not legally obtain as-of-right permits to build big box stores.

And...who was ASLP? You guessed it...

Taurus New England, ASLP’s majority partner, never seriously considered building anything other than a big-box-dominated project. This was not just because of Home Depot’s contractual constraints. Taurus had had enjoyed great success by buying failed projects, repackaging them, and selling them for a quick and substantial profit. The last thing they wanted was to execute an office-based master plan. Also, principal Lorenz Reibling was and remains deeply pessemistic about the Boston-area economy’s future demand for office space.
So Taurus faced the challenge of obtaining permits to build a project to which most Somervillians then objected. They determined to meet that challenge by replacing erstwhile partner National Development with a politically connected developer.
Environmental activist and unsuccessful congressional candidate John O’Connor was married to Carolyn Mugar, who with her brother David, was heir to many Star Market properties. The Mugars were major contributors to the Massachusetts Democratic Party, and Carolyn sat on the Conservation Law Foundation Board of Directors.
Mr. O’Connor had persuaded his wife to create a development company that, starting with the supermarket properties, would showcase “green” development. They called it “Gravestar.” One of its first projects was the Porter Square strip mall, which drew mixed reviews from neighbors.
O’Connor had become close with a political operative named Natasha Perez, whom he installed in a cottage on his and Ms. Mugar’s residential property. During the Spring, 1999 special election to replace Mayor Michael Capuano, Ms. Perez had also become quite close with candidate Joe Curtatone, when she served as his campaign field officer. She subsequently went to work for Gravestar, and at the same time, as Deputy Executive Director of the Massachusetts Democratic Party.
Taurus calculated that Gravestar had the political juice that they needed. They brought Gravestar into ASLP, gave them a small equity position, and charged them with managing public relations and delivering the permits. Gravestar, in turn, charged Natasha Perez with leading this effort.
This was the biggest opportunity that Gravestar had thus far encountered. Unfortunately, John O’Connor, beloved in the environmental community, had the bad judgment to die at the age of 44, before he could fully appreciate the environmental disaster that ASLP’s plans would create.
Joe Curtatone was deeply impressed with Lorenz Reibling when Natasha Perez introduced them. This is understandable; Mr. Reibling is brilliant, charming, highly successful, and has an avuncular manner. Curtatone sought a personal relationship, taking Reibling’s family to see the tall ships when he was out of the country, and attempting to persuade Reibling to purchase the Prospect Hill house across the street from Joe’s sister’s home. They dined together regularly at Henrietta’s Kitchen in Harvard Square, discussing a variety of topics, including Joe’s political ambitions.

I guess the rules for playing political games are different for the JWs who smell like money.

*********

A 2014 interview from Argentina, with Lorenz Reibling.

Selected quotes from above link:

Global Investment property: the look of an expert
Lorenz Reibling, President of Taurus Investment Holdings, the international company that develops Argentina Austral Park, was interviewed by the online media of Germany's most important business. The following is an excerpt from the interview with his views on the opportunities and risks in real estate markets in different regions of the world

Lorenz speaks about his client base:

Düsseldorf . Reibling is the president and co-founder of Taurus Investment. The company, based in Boston, specializes in real estate investments for very wealthy and institutional clients. Handelsblatt-Online spoke with him about his exclusive clients; opportunities in the German real estate market; and prestigious project in Texas.
Professor Reibling, many customers are very rich. Who would trust their money?
Our customers must meet three main criteria. They must be able to invest the money in a long period of time; if necessary, they should be able to increase the amount they have invested; and must be willing to commit to our business model. Anyone with $ 500,000 available to have the opportunity to participate in a "test project" to see how things are going. What we really want to see is, however, a greater potential for liquid capital as the service offered to these customers takes a lot of time demands.
How solvents should be your customers?
We always advise clients to invest about 5 to 15 percent of their liquid capital with us. At five million - our entry-level standard- this would correspond to the liquid assets of over $ 30 million. Also, of course, we have significantly more wealthy clients, including some billionaires.
Are they correct the lists of billionaires published in magazines?
No. The information on the goods included in the lists is often exaggerated over which in excess default-. Our clients include, at least, two German billionaires who have invested millions of dollars. None of them appears on these lists.
Do you sometimes refuse to take customers?
Yes, it happens. Liquidity alone is not enough. For us it is important that the client understands exactly what we do. In the worst cases the customer may lose all our investments in real estate. Anyone who does not understand this, or is not able to think like an entrepreneur is in the wrong place if you come to us.

The interview is lengthy, and wraps up with a discussion about global markets, and Lorenz tells why Taurus invests in certain countries:

It [Taurus] also invests in countries which do not bet conservative investors. Argentina is experiencing a national crisis. Turkey has big political problems of India is not developing as many investors expected. Why did you choose these particular countries?
There are countries that certainly would be just as interesting, such as Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia, Rwanda, Mozambique, and South Africa, to name a few. Ultimately, our business model is based on having a strong individual in a country. Our Director in Argentina is an Argentine first level; our man in Turkey is Turkish; our man in India is Indian.Without trust these people would not be able to win local investors or make deals . Ideally we want someone who has a good network at their disposal. When we have such an individual we can not enter the market.
"Investments based on a Philosophy"
Can you give us an example of how it works?
In Turkey, for example, we have developed an office building and a shopping center to the tune of three million digits. Our man in Istanbul organized everything and got aboard Turkish investors. 70 percent of the money comes from Turkey, the rest worldwide.
What is your assessment of southern Europe?
We also look at the region, particularly Spain. We are convinced that the two criteria I mentioned earlier, demographics and labor market trends are not in favor of Spain. Although the demographic evolution of Spain is somewhat better than in Germany, the employment situation is much worse. We decided not to invest in Spain.
Is the crisis in southern Europe will end soon?
We believe that the countries of southern Europe still have difficult times ahead before they can regain a sound economic base. Without the funding from Germany not only Spain, but also Italy would be in a very tight corner. Where we want to invest, but now we can not because we are involved in the consolidation of our activities in India, is Africa.
Many investors mainly associated Africa with poverty, lawlessness and corruption. What countries do you mean?
Rwanda is a wonderful country. Mozambique is also interesting. However, in the case of a company that was founded 40 years ago and in an interim phase of 20 years has become an American enterprise, with added value and strong ... we must allow time for such things. Sometimes we get angry about missed opportunities, but despite this, we first want to focus on our projects in India and Turkey, and ensure they are successful. The most exciting project for me personally, is in Austin, Texas.
That's where you are making a large housing development incorporating alternative energy sources.
We bought plots of land during the crisis and we are very satisfied. We are developing additional 7,500 homes and 100,000 square meters of land for schools, parks and other facilities.
The big attraction is a geothermal system that provides energy. The technology will be provided by Bosch and BASF. Austin is a thriving, young and liberal city. And we've been fortunate that a new road has been built nearby. We expect our investors to at least double its capital.
Why, despite the "Energy Revolution" This type of geothermal energy projects in Germany do not work?
If you could show me a piece of land to allow the construction of several thousand homes in a good location and infrastructure, we would in Germany too. This type of project has to reach a critical size of thousand homes to be profitable. The local government has major problems with this type of project.
The German owners have been supporters of alternative energy sources for a long time.
If you, as an individual, purchase a geothermal system, it does because of its philosophy. And so you forget the figures and do something good for the environment. The reason the project in Austin is so interesting is because it is gigantic. In total we have invested nearly one hundred million dollars to date; It is a responsibility that can only be assumed if economies of scale are appropriate.

And...a few fun facts about Taurus Investments:

TAURUS INVESTMENT - FACTS AND FIGURES
Managed assets: Taurus Investment Holding currently manages real estate valued at three billion dollars.
Customers : Customers Investment deTaurus consist mainly high net worth individuals. Many of them come from German-speaking countries, USA, Canada and Israel. In addition, institutional customers have also invested $ 350 million with Taurus.
Offices: The company is headquartered in Boston, USA Taurus also has offices in London, Florida, Texas, Munich, Buenos Aires, Istanbul, Athens and Trivandrum (India). In total, Taurus operates in 16 markets worldwide. ( Editor's Note: In Argentina operates through Taurus Americas and its main project is the development and operation of the Southern Park) .
Projects: The volume of projects Taurus is generally in the range of 10 to 100 million US dollars. Between 5 and 20 investors can participate in each project. The flagship project of the company is currently in Whisper Valley, located near Austin, Texas.

smiley: smokin

48

Candace Conti Case

by truthseekeriam in

jw
friends

filed:.

letter dated june 22, 2015, notifying the court that petitioners, watchtower and fremont congregation have reached a settlement with respondent, conti.. .

click here to request automatic e-mail notifications about this case..

OrphanCrow

Candace on the other hand IS fighting to get them to change their policy thus why would she accept a settlement, she is not in it for the money but to change the policies...thus the only way she could accept a settlement is if the WT are going to change their policies.
Or am I wrong?

Yes, I think you are wrong.

There are certain policies that cannot be changed. Some can be changed through a court of law, and some cannot be changed. The notion that the JW elders have to announce and/or inform the congregation that a pedophile is in their midst does not have legal clout. It won't happen.

What can happen, though, is that the elders and the WTS can be held responsible for supervising the pedophile and ensuring that they are never alone with children while they are engaged in church activities. That can be enforced.

Besides, Candace can do whatever the fuck she wants to do. Even if she wants to change her mind...it is HER decision and hers alone and nobody should criticize the decisions of Candace and her legal team. Nobody.

39

Jehovah's Witness woman refuses blood, then dies.

by Lee Elder in

another jehovah's witness woman has died while giving birth due to massive blood loss and refusing a blood transfusion.

she leaves nine children behind.

she finally consented to the transfusion but it was too late to save her.

OrphanCrow

Increasing awareness about cases like the woman in Ghana, is a double-edged sword.

We would like to think that media attention will pressure the WTS to change their bloody doctrine, or for countries to change laws so children can get blood. However, i don't think that the media attention will result in that outcome - what it will do is increase the public's perception that there is a demand and need for "bloodless" technology.

The people who are rubbing their hands in glee over this woman's death, are the JWs who are profiting from the biotechnology companies that they work for, promote, and are invested in. Each death from blood refusal adds to the demand of the market.

The article in the OP links to an editorial concerning JWs refusing blood transfusions for their children in Ghana.

Ghana: A-G Must Intervene in Jehovah's Witnesses Bunkum

The comment section is telling. The WTS has been very successful in perpetuating medical myths and lies through the spread of their propaganda.The noblood propaganda and lies extend across the world.

Several people who responded to the article reveal the level of ignorance that is encouraged by WTS sites like noblood:

"This is sheer lunacy. Far more people have died from taking "life-saving" transfusions due to hemoletic reactions and blood-borne disease than have ever died from refusing a transfusion."

That statement is misinformed and inaccurate.

Lee Elder, you had your hands full responding to the people who posted replies. Well done - but I am not sure if anything can combat the lies that they have been told. The bloody doctrine seems to have a tighter hold on people than even the concept of god does - the WTS uses their twisted "science" in the same way they use the "bible" to support their twisted religious doctrine.

Here is another sadly ignorant comment:

"Blood transfusions do not save live. Replacing lost volume wirh volume expanders does. People die from two reasons: trams or disease. Medical science has found that the safe course is always non-blood medical management. The author of this article is uninformed and thus very biased."

Again, Lee, you gave a great reply to that very wrong comment.

I do not know how to combat the misinformation that is perpetuated by the WTS and their noblood propaganda teams, but the level of deceit that is fed to people who lack the skills and resources to access valid medical facts is astounding, and criminal.

"It is not true transfusions are required. Many hospitals around the world are blood free operations. The USA Military is going blood free in its hospitals, forward line units."

This is a horribly misinformed statement - yes, the military uses techniques to reduce the amount of blood required - but they DO NOT "go blood free". The military cannot go blood free. They MUST abide by a resuscitation model, which includes giving blood when required - even if the patient undergoes surgery using autologous transfusion technology, blood is always on hand if required. Always. It is only the JWs who are allowed to die on the table - everybody else gets to use the back up safety valve - they get blood when they need it.

There are many medical studies that report that the use of a cell saver increases bleeding during surgery and after. The cell savers will sometimes, but not always, reduce the need for an allogenic blood transfusion. Sometimes, more allogenic blood transfusions are needed when cell savers are used, not less.

As I said before, I have no idea how to educate JWs and exJWs about TTAB- the truth about blood. The WTS has been perpetuating lies about blood for decades - my father, inactive for over 45 years, attended the Canadian Kingdom Ministry School in Toronto back in the early 60s and he still retains the idea that a blood substitute was easily and readily used instead of blood - and with as good or better result than blood. That is the lie he was told by the WTS way back in 1965. He still believes it to be true. He has no idea that JWs were used by the US military to test blood volume expanders during the 60s - and that many of those JWs died from drowning as a result of testing the tolerable levels of volume expanders - .they died because of the alternatives being tested on them.

My father still believes that there is a safe and easy alternative to blood - he retains the idea that the doctors can just grab a different bag of fluid and hang it on the pole instead of blood - that is what he was told in 1965. And that isn't true.

It seems to be far easier to dismantle the lies around the biblical basis for the noblood stance, than it is to uproot the medical lies that the WTS has told.

And that means that women like the one in the article will continue to die. Women are more likely to need blood than men, and yet, the men make the rules. Women have no say in the making of the rules - they just are told to obey the directive to sacrifice their lives. Little do they know that their death will only translate into profit for the JWs who promote the "bloodless" technology that they are invested in..

13

Jehovah's witnesses owe much to the catolic church

by TheWonderofYou in

jehovahs witness owe the bible to the catolic church,the church was the authority that put the bible together, and jehovahs witnesses owe the name jehovah a catolic monk.

jehovash witnesses owe the catolic church the sowing of the field where they are now preaching.. otherwise after leaving the jw i got a much better understanding of christianity and the cc..

OrphanCrow

prologos: OrphanCrow: are all Catholics served the wine?, or, just like the JWs, denied it, but allowed to watch the special class member ( priest) drink?

I duuno, prologos. Lol! I am not much of a Catholic. I have only been in a Catholic Church for weddings and funerals. And once, for fun, I went to Roman Catholic Easter mass. That was a hoot - I had never seen anything like it!

There were guys dressed in blue and white who marched around (the knights), and the priest did hokey pokey magic - talking in Latin, shaking incense balls and throwing stuff in a cauldron...big sparks and lots of smoke!

I was sitting alone in a pew, and got surrounded by a large Italian family. Haha! they brought coolers with sandwiches and chicken and thermoses of coffee (I think it was coffee - maybe it was wine) and settled in for a party.

It was wild. And the music was good.

But, if you really want an experience, I recommend a Ukrainian Greek Orthodox wedding. If you can tolerate the length and the getting up and down, the ceremony is quite stupendous.

48

Candace Conti Case

by truthseekeriam in

jw
friends

filed:.

letter dated june 22, 2015, notifying the court that petitioners, watchtower and fremont congregation have reached a settlement with respondent, conti.. .

click here to request automatic e-mail notifications about this case..

OrphanCrow

bafh: wait, does this mean that she won, or they won?

Candace won the minute she stepped into court and opened her mouth.

That was a victory to beat all other victories for her.

Legal battles are won by taking small steps, and sometimes a step backwards. The changes that will happen in the court system may take years to see, but like the old saying goes - a journey of a thousand miles is started by taking one step.

The victory for each and every victim begins the moment they find their voices.

Candace won. Big time. The victory is for her and for all other victims like her who can find courage in knowing that the trail has been blazed.

Well done, Candace. You deserve a rest. Years from now, you will be able to look back and know that what you have done bears fruit. Others will benefit from your courageous stand.

Candace, you should get a standing ovation...a really long one.

13

Jehovah's witnesses owe much to the catolic church

by TheWonderofYou in

jehovahs witness owe the bible to the catolic church,the church was the authority that put the bible together, and jehovahs witnesses owe the name jehovah a catolic monk.

jehovash witnesses owe the catolic church the sowing of the field where they are now preaching.. otherwise after leaving the jw i got a much better understanding of christianity and the cc..

OrphanCrow

Ah, yes...the Catholic Church - the mother of them all.

Excommunicated Catholics are denied the communion - the JWs don't drink the wine or eat the bread.

The Jehovah's witnesses are just apostate Catholics.