Posts by OrphanCrow

9

Measles, Cults and Vaccinations

by OrphanCrow in

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-rushes-to-vaccinate-against-measles-in-joliette-1.2991904.

a member of the esprit-saint mission told cbc news reporter thomas daigle that vaccinations are against the community's beliefs and that their prophet warns them vaccines result in illness.

the member confirmed the first cases of measles in the region originated with the community.the esprit-saint eugenics group was founded by eugene richer dit lafleche in 1913. the community purports to live by and work toward spreading the message of the third member of the trinity, the holy spirit.a former member of the community said it believes vaccines compromise people's immune systems, and that they feel protected by the spirit of dit la fleche, who died in 1925.public health officials said wednesday they believe the number of infections will continue to climb.. this article sounded interesting - i was reminded of how similar this cult's views on vaccinations are to the jws view, especially back in the 1920s to the 1950s.

OrphanCrow

crazyguy: What year did the JW's publish that there was no such thing as viruses?

The WTS' stance that germs followed disease instead of the other way around, was expounded on many times in the Golden Age (Consolation) magazine during the 1920s and 30s. The WTS consistently took a stand against the AMA whenever they could.

http://www.freeminds.org/history/quackery.htm

The Golden Age and its successor Consolation contained several articles against the germ theory of disease. They believed the medical profession and scientific communities that held certain germs caused disease were wrong. They believed that the germs associated with certain diseases followed the arrival of the diseases. Instead of germs causing diseases, they believed diseases caused germs. The diseases themselves were actually caused by improper diet and constipation! If one had less than two bowel movements a day, one would get any number of diseases in short order.
Again, long after bacteria and viruses proved to be the cause of some diseases, The Golden Age was saying that not a single disease was caused by germs, that Pasteur was a "fake" and that Hydrophobia or Rabies was simply a "mental hoax". For this reason, The Golden Age and Consolation magazines advised not to drink pasteurized milk, but to drink it raw to get the benefits of nutrients destroyed during pasteurization.
Since they didn’t believe bacteria caused food poisoning, they thought it must be the aluminum food was cooked in. Since viruses and bacteria didn’t cause diseases such as smallpox, having a vaccination was viewed as putting "filthy pus" into ones veins. The real culprit in disease causation was constipation!

85

jw.org cart days numbered?

by jookbeard in

reading a report of an elder in a friends cong has been hiding and spying on the pioneers who seem to have a practise of dumping the cart and finding a local coffee shop, i've noticed that they do this in my local high street as well but this week they seemed to be all huddled around the cart, they've clearly been warned, a vast percentage of the time i see they seem to be more interested in fiddling with their mobile phones and gossiping, is just seems these carts are a means for the pioneers to turn in "easy time" i wonder what sort of figures show how much literature is being taken by the public?

i bet its very minimal.

naturally the gb would say they are a phenomenal success , we clearly know they are not.

OrphanCrow

insidetheKH: i did already come here on this forum long before i became a JW

Wow.

I have always wondered if the world actually had people in it who would knowingly join a death cult that allows the rape of children and oppression of women. Most people who join aren't privy to the intricacies of membership until they are already hooked - but you were.

Wow. You actually joined the JWs after you knew about the blood transfusion ban that has cost so many lives, and after you knew about their horrific practice of covering up child rape/abuse and after you knew about their destructive policies around shunning?

People like you do exist. No wonder patriarchal institutions that step on the human rights of people still flourish in our society.

24

Jdub Growth In USA?

by freein2004 in

does anybody have any information on recent growth in the jdub religion?

other than their own reports?

or, can you point me to the right post here?

OrphanCrow

If they are fudging the numbers to make the picture better than it is, how come, year-after-year they reveal the number of memorial partakers is increasing?

What Joe said.

Or....they could be gearing up for a doctrinal change.

After all, aren't there GB members who are way too young to really be classified as 'annointed'? Give it a few more years and the numbers going up will be a non-issue. At the least, it won't matter a single iota for the JWs who loyally swallow anything that comes from the gilded Tower.

42

Mormon view of JW.ORG

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

does anyone have any links to how the mormons (or ex mormons for that matter) view the changes that the wts has made over recent years, especially the growth of jw.org and characters like caleb & sophia?.

have they noticed?

do they see similarities?

OrphanCrow

insidetheKH :@Orphancrow look at the number of witnesses that were counted in the bunch of countries that were not specified by name in the 1990 yearbook and compare that with the number of Witnesses that popped up in all of the east european countries during the 90's

Thanks, iskh...but, sorry...I have made a personal commitment not to crack open a Watchtower publication or put any stock in their 'number crunching'.

As far as I m concerned, if they lie about the doctrine, they lie about the numbers too. Once a liar, always a liar.

But, thank you for your information.

9

Measles, Cults and Vaccinations

by OrphanCrow in

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-rushes-to-vaccinate-against-measles-in-joliette-1.2991904.

a member of the esprit-saint mission told cbc news reporter thomas daigle that vaccinations are against the community's beliefs and that their prophet warns them vaccines result in illness.

the member confirmed the first cases of measles in the region originated with the community.the esprit-saint eugenics group was founded by eugene richer dit lafleche in 1913. the community purports to live by and work toward spreading the message of the third member of the trinity, the holy spirit.a former member of the community said it believes vaccines compromise people's immune systems, and that they feel protected by the spirit of dit la fleche, who died in 1925.public health officials said wednesday they believe the number of infections will continue to climb.. this article sounded interesting - i was reminded of how similar this cult's views on vaccinations are to the jws view, especially back in the 1920s to the 1950s.

OrphanCrow

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-rushes-to-vaccinate-against-measles-in-joliette-1.2991904

A member of the Esprit-Saint Mission told CBC News reporter Thomas Daigle that vaccinations are against the community's beliefs and that their prophet warns them vaccines result in illness. The member confirmed the first cases of measles in the region originated with the community.
The Esprit-Saint eugenics group was founded by Eugène Richer Dit LaFlèche in 1913. The community purports to live by and work toward spreading the message of the third member of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.
A former member of the community said it believes vaccines compromise people's immune systems, and that they feel protected by the spirit of Dit La Flèche, who died in 1925.
Public health officials said Wednesday they believe the number of infections will continue to climb.

This article sounded interesting - I was reminded of how similar this cult's views on vaccinations are to the JWs view, especially back in the 1920s to the 1950s.

So...I did a search on the founder, Dit La Fleche. And, lo and behold...a thread on this forum popped up in the results.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/92704/jw-urban-legend-has-anyone-heard-jw-clone-group-called-princes?page=1

from that older thread:

blondie10 years agow76 11/15 p. 695 I Found Something Worth Fighting For ***
A unique experience was encountered in 1975 when I met some of the influential members of a small French church group of about 1,500 people called "La Mission de l’Esprit Saint" (The Mission of the Holy Spirit). After a long talk with one of these men, he asked if he and some friends could come to see me. "Of course," I said. A few days later he arrived with other members and their wives—forty in all!
In time, they locked up their church, closed their school, and all their "servants" resigned. Then they told their members to start studying with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Suddenly, a thousand people wanted Bible studies!
In a space of two months I placed 1,300 Bible study aids among them. Many of the studies ceased later, but close to a hundred of this former church group have been immersed as Jehovah’s Witnesses, and four hundred others are either studying or attending meetings at the Kingdom Halls. More are expected to be immersed shortly.

tigoyo12 years agoJust for your information, "The Prince" was the surname of the second leader of "La Mission de l'Esprit-Saint", Gustave Robitaille (d. 1965), sucessor of His Majesty the Master Eugène Richer dit Laflèche. The thing that happened is what some would call a "cognitive dissonance". The Mission servants (equivalent of the elders in a JW Cong.) announced the End of the World (called the Warning) around 1975 too. But the thing is that it never happend (DUH!) and the group falled apart and many offshots grew up from that incident, there's 2 of them remaining nowadays. The "church" that they closed is still there on Everett near Papineau in Montreal but it's almost vacant (1 servant left and maybe a dozen of "consecrated" coming for the weekly meetings. And indeed a good part of the flock of the Mission went to the JW as there is a great similarity in many aspect: worship (3 meetings of 2 hours each week) ,classic music (piano, violin,etc.) , hierarchy (God, The Master (Eugène Richer dit Laflèche) and the Servants (Elders), hate toward the World (avoidance of social activities, pagan fests, home schooling) , a similar 6000 year chronology, importance of the religious litterature over the Bible, modesty (no makeup, no jewels, no hair tint), family (no superior studies, getting married young and no contraception allowed) and alot of similarity in the slang of the two religions (Armagueddon, system of things, a unique definition of the holy spirit).

tigoyo12 years agoCO's Eugène Pothier and Richer Pothier are from La Mission de l'Esprit Saint

59

Asshole Atheism – Not for me, now or ever.

by donny in

to start off with let me clarify that by asshole atheism i am not referring to strong atheism or any other type of upfront atheism.

what i am referring to is the belligerent, hateful atheism that smacks of trolls and other types who want to derail conversation or comments at any cost..

i enjoy hearing comments from both sides of the subjects of theism, nationalism or politics, especially from those who have intense opinions.

OrphanCrow

clambake: Real science is being a doctor, curing diseases, being an engineer, working on the electric car etc etc.

Not really. You have only described some professions that rely on scientific knowledge.

'Real' science requires that knowledge produced by the scientific method is 1.)valid and 2.) reliable. Validity is dependent upon the method of measurement being accurate. Reliability is dependent upon consistent results over time.

Problems arise when the scientific method is not followed correctly. The method itself is infallible. It is the scientists and those people who exploit scientific findings, or promote/practice non-scientific methods, that are fallible.

85

jw.org cart days numbered?

by jookbeard in

reading a report of an elder in a friends cong has been hiding and spying on the pioneers who seem to have a practise of dumping the cart and finding a local coffee shop, i've noticed that they do this in my local high street as well but this week they seemed to be all huddled around the cart, they've clearly been warned, a vast percentage of the time i see they seem to be more interested in fiddling with their mobile phones and gossiping, is just seems these carts are a means for the pioneers to turn in "easy time" i wonder what sort of figures show how much literature is being taken by the public?

i bet its very minimal.

naturally the gb would say they are a phenomenal success , we clearly know they are not.

OrphanCrow

neverendingjourney: The magazines were extremely popular with the homeless, who, as I later discovered, used them as rolling papers for their tobacco. You'd also see them lining a lot of their cardboard box homes.

I have often wondered what has happened to the mountains and mountains of printed material that the WTS is responsible for littering our planet with.

Just think of how proudly the WTS trots out how many magazines, books, and tracts the have distributed since Zion's Watchtower started publishing back in the late 1800s. (136 years of paper production)

I try to imagine how big of a mountain all that paper would make. How many acres would all that paper cover if it was laid out at a foot deep? Or, maybe 50 feet high...how big would that mountain be?

*and...how much profit does that much paper represent? - all the way from the cutting down of the tree, selling off the by-products of the paper making industry (turpentine, for one), the mining of the kaolin to make the paper white, etc, etc...and then...shipping it all over the world. To be used to roll tobacco and line cardboard boxes to sleep in (they do contribute to charity after all!).

42

Mormon view of JW.ORG

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

does anyone have any links to how the mormons (or ex mormons for that matter) view the changes that the wts has made over recent years, especially the growth of jw.org and characters like caleb & sophia?.

have they noticed?

do they see similarities?

OrphanCrow

insidetheKH: reporting 29% growth in 1993 for the countries of the former Soviet Union in 1995 50% growth in the 10 countries of the former Soviet Union

I don't think that those numbers reflect actual growth.

The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 and it was that event that revealed the numbers of people inside the Soviet Union who still viewed themselves as JWs. They were not new converts to the religion - they just became visible to the rest of the world.

And, some of those congregations that had self-identified as JW in the early 90s, later 'defected' because the doctrinal stance of the Watchtower had changed so much in the years that had passed by without contact from the Watchtower.

85

jw.org cart days numbered?

by jookbeard in

reading a report of an elder in a friends cong has been hiding and spying on the pioneers who seem to have a practise of dumping the cart and finding a local coffee shop, i've noticed that they do this in my local high street as well but this week they seemed to be all huddled around the cart, they've clearly been warned, a vast percentage of the time i see they seem to be more interested in fiddling with their mobile phones and gossiping, is just seems these carts are a means for the pioneers to turn in "easy time" i wonder what sort of figures show how much literature is being taken by the public?

i bet its very minimal.

naturally the gb would say they are a phenomenal success , we clearly know they are not.

OrphanCrow

Perhaps that's why insidetheKH likes cart witnessing so much

Cart witnessing...and...forum witnessing.

It is so cool that I don't have to open my door to talk to JWs or stop at one of the carts. I just have to come here and I get all the apologetics I want by reading insidetheKH's posts.

22

Memorial Date this year, why so far out ?

by Phizzy in

we have debated for many a long year on jwn about the "proper" date for the passover/memorial and my conclusion is that jw's get it all wrong for a number of reasons, but as the gospels are contradictory, nobody can say for sure.. most years they are close to the time by a day or so, signalled by the full moon occurring about then.. i believe this year they have chosen saturday april 11th.. this is a full week, near enough, away from the full moon.. what has gone on with their calculation ?.

OrphanCrow

Maybe the WTS still uses the 'Calendar of Jehovah' to figure out the memorial date.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/124676/calendar-jehovah-god?page=1&size=20