Posts by OrphanCrow

21

Mandatory reporting and misprision

by Xanthippe in

day 7 of the australian royal commission has chair justice peter mcclellan raising the point that i have been wondering about all along, which is, how can these elders not report child abuse to the authorities especially when a full confession has taken place?.

justice mcclellan asked toole, the wts's lawyer, if he is aware that there is a difference between an organisation being required to have mandatory reporting of child abuse to the authorities and misprision which is the concealment of a felony, itself a criminal offence?

toole says he is aware of it now but he wasn't before!

OrphanCrow

Xanthippie: Toole says he is aware of it now but he wasn't before! I find this incomprehensible. Surely a lawyer knows that concealing a crime is in itself a crime? All along I, as a person unfamiliar with the intricacies of criminal law, have nevertheless been thinking surely they are committing offences by concealing these crimes of child abuse.
The counsel for BCB and chair McClellan have just pointed out before the Commision adjourned that individuals all do have this obligation under Australian law aside from organisational mandatory reporting. I wonder now what will be the fallout from this?

I was astounded by Toole's lack of legal knowledge as well. The Commission is making a critical point. It is one thing to abide by mandatory reporting laws and quite another to conceal known crime.

Mandatory reporting pre-supposes that guilt has not been established, or even that a crime has been committed. It is mandatory to report allegations of abuse. The JWs do not do even that. They investigate and collect all those intimate detils about minor sex, first. And then they deal with the crime. Once they have established guilt, they still don't report the crime. This falls well outside the parameters of the mandatory reporting laws and it covers states that do not have mandatory reporting laws for child sex abuse. It is mandatory to report all crimes everywhere.

The JW judicial system need a complete overhaul. The WTS lawyers have admitted to their ignorance and lack of competency right in their own testimony. They should not be in charge of internal investigations.

33

The Australian: Women to 'Never Rule' in Jehovah's church

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/women-to-never-rule-in-jehovahs-church/story-fn3dxiwe-1227470092202.

august 4, 2015 annette blackwell.

a jehovah's witness official says the church's stance to never let women hold decision-making roles compares to muslim and aboriginal people adhering to their own ancient beliefs.

OrphanCrow

Women have no vote inside the JW religion. The WTS has been emphasizing in their literature how the JWs are citizens of God's kingdom. If that is the case, then the WT society is way behind the society at large.

Women in Australia led the push for women's rights. Women in Australia gained the right to vote in 1895 even though it took them another 64 years to take a seat of power:

http://womenshistory.net.au/timeline/

21 March 1895
Votes for women in South Australia
The proclamation of South Australia’s Suffrage Act, assented to by Queen Victoria on 2 February, gave women an equal right with men to vote, and to stand for election to the Colony’s House of Assembly.
Women with property could also vote in Legislative Council elections, but women could not stand for the upper House of the parliament until 1959.

JW women don't even get a vote.

It really pissed me off when Spinks made that comment about Native American belief systems. He has no clue about the development of tranditonal beliefs within cultures, and how those cultures have voluntarily, and sometimes forcibly, have evolved in response to Christian migration. He is hopelessly dumb and ignorant.

There are some Aboriginal belief systems that were governed by women and were forced to change to the white patriarchal form of governance that colonized them. There are Native American beliefs that have morphed into quasi Chritsian religions. What about the blend of voodooism and Catholicism in the Haiti and the Dominican Republic?

What about the WTS' very own requirement that those cultures abandon their beliefs if they want to be "citizens of God's kingdom" according to WT precepts?

Aaarrgh...

37

[Day 7 - 5/8]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

i give you day 7 of the royal commissions proceedings:.

part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 and 3 will soon be available.. part 1:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk0lgqedy_i.

OrphanCrow

vidiot: OrphanCrow - Wasn't it Toole who claimed in testimony that 'we always appear when subpeonaed, and we always produce all documents requested...'?"

Dumbass probably assumed the RC wouldn't know about the really incriminating stuff.

Or maybe Toole really doesn't know details about the child sex abuses cases in the States. Who knows? Maybe the WTS keeps secrets inside the Tower, too. Just like they keep the sheep blind, so the wolves are blind as well.

Toole appears to be well indoctrinated by the WTS already. He claimed that the JWs were arrested in WW2 because they wouldn't fight for Hitler. Huh. That is a crock. The JWs were arrested in Germany because they wouldn't stop spreading political propaganda around and calling it "religious tracts". It wasn't that they were "non-military" it was because they were adversely political. Big difference.

The JW arrests in Germany predate the call to uniform and arms.

39

Rodney Spinks' Performance

by maksutov in

it seems like there has not been as much discussion here about the rc testimony on day 6 (4th august) as there has been about previous days.

i was quite surprised by rodney spinks' testimony, which was a marked contrast to the bungling and inarticulate testimony of the elders that appeared before him.

spinks seemed reasonably co-operative, and a lot more willing to concede points than anyone else has been.

OrphanCrow

vidiot: No.
I mean doubling down on the policy over and over in the (ideologicaly-biased) hope/belief that it will eventually succeed despite evidence to the contrary...
...i.e. "...it's gotta happen sooner or later; it's based on the Bible, after all... we just have to hang in there..."

Yes. You have just described one of the mechanisms of addictive behavior.

If you haven't seen the movie already, I just love the explanation of gambling addiction in the movie "Money". Al Pacino describes it perfectly: a gambling addict is not addicited of winning - they are addicted to losing.

37

[Day 7 - 5/8]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

i give you day 7 of the royal commissions proceedings:.

part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 and 3 will soon be available.. part 1:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk0lgqedy_i.

OrphanCrow

Heaven: I think it is reasonable to assume that Jackson will have some reason other than 'Dad's not well' for not showing or he'll high tail it outta Dodge.

Lol! Wasn't it Toole who claimed in testimony that "we always appear when subpeonaed, and we always produce all documents requested...". ?

Yeah, let's see how accurate Toole's testimony was. We already know it is a lie - the WTS has already been contemptuous of court requests in the States in the Conti case.

Lol! "The Teflon Man"? Yeah...we just need to find a better super hero to defeat the super villians. Maybe a pot scrubber hero would work. A woman - trained in the kitchen scrubbing those teflon pans. Yup - a WT trained woman super hero. That should do it.

81

Did you hear that!? His Honour is insisting that Jackson attend the Royal Commission

by umbertoecho in

i actually started clapping at that point, as his honour explained to the wt type creep sycophantic slithery lawyer that........" i understand that we all have issues to face in life and .....that is a part of life...........however it has become obvious that this man ....is in such a position to assist with this investigation.....".

it boils down to the fact that stewart outright accused the latest witness of misleading the royal commission and this lead to some document searches which led his honour to conclude that they had been protecting mr jackson.

this was a warm and fluffy moment folks.................brilliant stuff!!!!!

OrphanCrow

vidiot: I'm really interested in seeing how a GB member reacts in the face of legitimate authority.

Geez, do you think the Catholic Church can rescue her baby now? Do you think the Real Mother will bail Jackson out??

Now, what will "Jehovah's mouthpiece" do when real justice asks him some questions?

Religious authority, meet secular authority. The Watchtower Society has been playing games in the world of secular law for a long time.

I think that what is coming up will be a fine standoff. The Watchtower's "ecclesiastical privlege" is going to take a beating, and by extension, the Catholic Church's confessional procedures as well.

The silent lambs are speaking - the Royal Commission is giving them voice. I love it.

37

[Day 7 - 5/8]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

i give you day 7 of the royal commissions proceedings:.

part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 and 3 will soon be available.. part 1:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk0lgqedy_i.

OrphanCrow

Thank you for posting these videos, Control. I finally succumbed to exhaustion during the last session and I was happy to be able to watch the parts I missed when I woke up. I admire the stamina of all those who are working for the Royal Commission. Stewart looks fresh as a daisy!

This is turning out to be quite the marathon. I can't wait for Jackson to have to give testimony. Ha! The truth shall be heard.

15

If Jackson is not available due to compassionate reasons, can other GB member take his place?

by Viva la Vida in

jw
friends

i would think the only christian organization on this planet would be more than willingly send another gb member to australia in order to answer rcs questions, taking the place of jackson who is taking care of his ill farther.

.

if someone should show compassion to jackson those are his gb pals.

OrphanCrow

VidaLaVida: If someone should show compassion to Jackson those are his GB pals.

I don't think Jackson can expect "compassion" from the Royal Commission. Justice McClelland make it pretty clear that the Victims are asking for compassion and that if one were to claim responsbility for people, then they need to answer to those requests.

Even in the very unlikely event that another GB stepped up to the plate for his "brother", *snicker*...I don't think the Commission would allow that. They might welcome another one of "Jehovah's mouthpiece" on the stand, but I think Jackson's affiliation with the Writing Department is what interests the Commission. The WD claims to be the "teaching" arm of the JWs and the WT expert, Applewhite, has revealed her evaluation of that material. The teaching arm is critical to how the organization transfers power in the form of rules and procedures.

Huh. I hope the Writing Depatmartment Committee (Jehovah Jackson) head has to explain the "theocratic warfare" strategy that they put in print for the JWs to adopt when dealing with secular authorities.

39

Rodney Spinks' Performance

by maksutov in

it seems like there has not been as much discussion here about the rc testimony on day 6 (4th august) as there has been about previous days.

i was quite surprised by rodney spinks' testimony, which was a marked contrast to the bungling and inarticulate testimony of the elders that appeared before him.

spinks seemed reasonably co-operative, and a lot more willing to concede points than anyone else has been.

OrphanCrow

vidiot: OrphanCrow - "What is with their obsession with investigating child abuse allegations?"
Gambler's fallacy?

Ummm...like, a gambling addiction?

Well, if the shoe fits...child sex abuse "investigations" in the form that the elders engage in, feed addictions to child sex abuse material. And, the re-telling over and over again to the predator, of his crimes, certainly feeds into the addictive nature of a serial child rapist.

Hmmm....maybe the Royal Commission should call in a real expert. Someone who is well recognized as an expert on pedophile behavior. Someone with a lot of clout - who has worked extensively with studying criminal minds that have exhibited their psychopathy in child sex abuse crimes.

The judicial process of the JWs feeds the predator's addiction to child sex - they get to hear the stories of their crimes over and over again.

30

We can now estimate the absolute minimum number of child abuse cases

by Viviane in

vincent tool said that he is exclusively working the phones for child abuse cases, but never said he is not the only one.

for now, let's assume the rate of abuse cases averages over time to the three or four cases he gets per month.

let's further assume that, since he isn't the only person working the phones and is on vacation at some point, the number is 4-5 per month, or 4.5 per month.

OrphanCrow

Morpheus: That allows for normalization of given societal norms in the statistical compilations.

That is the part that I have trouble with. Which "societal norms" do we apply?

The norms outside of the JWs are being shown to be quite different than the norms of the WT society. The WT norms are heavily influenced by archaic customs and practices.

In spite of Applewhite giving glowing testimony that the JW religion is at the top of the scale in procedures to address child abuse, it still comes from someone whose own religion has a simliar stucture. Both environments foster abuse, not prevent it.

I think that this Royal Commission will give us some more parameters to use when trying to correlate numbers. Regardless, the magnitude of the problem of child abuse within the JWs is astounding. They continue to point fingers at the Catholic Church, but the problems that the JWs have with predators goes far beyond their "clergy class".

Mind you, the JWs are all "ordained ministers", aren't they?