Hmmmm....
OrphanCrow
JoinedPosts by OrphanCrow
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21
How do you know Satan didn't inspire the Bible?
by Coded Logic injws believe that satan knows things about the natural world (like how it was formed).. they also believe that satan can influence events (even fulfill prophecies).. the bible is the source of great confusion and the vast majority of christians (2.2 billion people) believe it but do not have "accurate knowledgetm".. from the jw point of view, wouldn't it be more likely that satan inspired the bible than an all loving god?.
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16
A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany
by Saintbertholdt inwhat percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.
what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?
(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).
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OrphanCrow
Good material, Saint.
Number crunching JW membership is a formidable task. There are so many factors to consider and conflicting numbers to deal with. It is difficult to sort othrough the estimates, the sources of data, etc.
Your theories are reasonably sound, at least, based on the information that is available. There is one thing though, that might need consideration. You speak of the Bible Students/JW men who signed the declaration, or simply went inactive, as being conscripted, and then returning after the war. I think it is reasonable to assume that not many returned. A large number would have died as war casualties.
I still, however, hard a hard time reconciling the numbers of JWs with the numbers of the Bible Students. The WTS always claims all the Bible Student numbers as their own, when there is much historical documentation that many German Bible Students did not consider themselves part of the WTS in the years leading up to WW2 and during the war. The numbers that the WTS claim as their own are padded with many Bible Students who did not follow the Rutherford/JW doctrine and who had already left to form groups such as "Free Bible Students Association". Those Bible Students who had broke away from the WTS would also have worn the purple triangle in the camps but they would not have considered themselves Jehovah's witnesses or part of the WTS.
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A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany
by Saintbertholdt inwhat percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.
what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?
(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).
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OrphanCrow
Now either mass conversions occurred or the coast was now clear for inactive witnesses to return to the fold. Which is more plausible?
Both are plausible. I think both reasons account for the increase. I don't see why it has to be one or the other.*to add -
I'll admit the 22 000 may be overblown by about 2 000. Penton 2004 (Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich: Sectarian Politics Under Persecution) reports 20 000 witnesses in 1933 which aligns well with the memorial attendance (25 000) which is always a greater figure but is also a good indicator of approximate adherents. The Watchtower has historically been pedantic about the memorial figures. I took the figure of 20 000 and 25 000 and took an average and then rounded it down.
James Penton is using figures given by the WTS.
Marley Cole, in his book The New World Society, gives the figure for JWs in Germany in 1928 as 9,755. That number also originated from WTS records.
It does not seem plausible that the increase in Germany during the five years between 1928 and 1933 was over double. If the WTS numbers are to be believed, then you also have to believe that there were 12,245 Germans who converted during those 5 years - almost 2500 per year (using 22,000 as the number in 1933).
Oh well...maybe the Germans were really receptive to Rutherford's message after he disrupted the German Watchtower in 1925, causing a major schism in the religion.
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A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany
by Saintbertholdt inwhat percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.
what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?
(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).
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OrphanCrow
The historical numbers that the WTS throws around about JWs in Germany during WW2 are far from accurate.
Factors that the WTS fails to account for:
- the WT was a fragmented religion leading up to, and including, WW2. There was a major split in the German WT around 1925 that saw Conrad Binkele leave the WTS and continue to support the "Earnest Bible Students". Many of the numbers that the WTS claim as their own were actually "Bible Students" who did not follow the WTS - they were not JWs who followed the WTS.
- the purple triangle that the JWs claim as being exclusively their own was also wore by other prisoners even though the JWs/Bible Students made up the majority of the purple triangles.
From the book Persecution and Resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses During the Nazi Regime by Hans Hesse:
pg 72 - the purple triangles were assigned 1937/8
The Purple Triangle designated the following prisoner groups:
- Bible Students
- Seventh Day Adventists
- Baptists
- pacifists
- possibly New Apostolic community
Final footnote: The 1 January 1949 Watchtower reported that the active number had surpassed the 1933 number (29,172 witnesses). It would seem most of the inactive lost sheep had rapidly returned just four years after the persecution ended.
Included in the the number of JWs in Germany after the war would be all the SS officers and guards who converted to the JW religion. I have often wondered how many actually did convert. After the magical year of 1942, the JWs who were still in the camps (those who didn't get assigned to a position of privilege working with the SS), were split up into separate barracks and received little opposition to their conversion preaching. Some SS guards and officers and other German citizens converted during that time and after. It was very easy for some Germans to substitute one "god" (Hitler) for another "god" (Jehovah) and to adopt the dream of a "Thousand Year Reign of Christ" in favor of a "Thousand Year Reign of the Third Reich".
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25
GB Not Providing Food-Helpers Write Articles
by TakeOffTheCrown inwhy does the governing body depend on the helpers to write watchtower articles and the information in other publications?
why does the governing body not write these articles themselves?
they depend on the helpers to compose/write this information.
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OrphanCrow
It must be quite a challenge for the WTS writers to try to keep coming up with different ways to tell the same basic story over and over again.
Maybe that is why the WTS keeps inventing so many rules all the time. The religious doctrine is frankly, boring as hell. Like...how many times do you need to tell it? Discussing rules, though, can fill a lot of space in literature, justifying the monthly publishing business.
The Watchtower magazines remind me of some of the old pulp fiction genre or mystery novels and films. Once you read one or see the movie, you always could predict the plot. It is like watching a B grade movie that just regurgitates the same old story that has been told countless times before.
I have read some of the Rutherford publications. With so many of the books that were published under his name, the title changed, the intro changed, and then it was the same old, same old, for the rest of the book. New illustrations, a new cover and a few subtle little twists and turns...but basically, the same f**ing book.
The WTS brags about having the highest circulation of any magazine with their Watchtower rag. I don't think, though, that it would ever win any writing awards.
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162
Lorenz Reibling gives interview about real estate
by OrphanCrow inthis interview was posted april 16, 2015 on youtube.
lorenz reibling's replies to the reporter in argentina are in english.. lorenz reibling is intimately connected to the watchtower society and, according to some sources, is a jw himself.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ssa-9yvii.
so who is lorenz reibling?
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OrphanCrow
Notice how Stoops describes the film "Name of God":
This independent documentary answers these questions and more with solid and convincing archaeological proof. It will encourage an open minded person to ask; “Is God’s name important to me?”.
If you know someone who says, “I will consider anything as long as it’s not from Jehovah’s Witnesses”, this video may be of interest to them. It is a very easy to watch and informative video.
Is it an "independent documentary"? Not at all. It is financed by JWs, a JW contributed to the film, and....it is made by a JW film company.
http://www.dreilindenfilm.de/index.php
Dreilindenfilm is owned by Fritz Poppenburg. Another JW.
(translated from German)
ABOUT US
Dreilinden film has existed for about 10 years and brings out mainly documentaries, which are marketed in their own home as DVDs. In addition to its own productions, films from foreign productions are taken as long as they fit the company profile.
The thematic focus is the scientific criticisms of Darwinian theory, ten films are to far in front. This range of high - partly award-winning - films takes Dreilinden film a unique position in the German-speaking countries.
In addition, the team of Dreilinden film strives to true enlightenment in areas of vital importance, such as the protection of unborn human life. However, our company owes its existence not only its own efforts, but is in significant part on the moral - attributable ethical descent of the prevailing media operation (only the public broadcasting consumes an annual budget of about 7.5 billion euros) to pass the task seems to spread disorientation and misinformation.
The many thoughtful contemporaries who have noticed this fact and order at Dreilinden movie DVDs, would like to take this opportunity. Fritz Poppenberg, September 2010And who is being targeted by this "independent" film that is made by Jehovah's Witnesses?
From Stoops:
It is being premiered in public forums and colleges all over the world to people with various backgrounds and beliefs.
There we go again. The JWs are not telling anyone that this is a JW film and are passing it off as independent in order to "spread disorientation and misinformation" (to use Poppenburg's words). These tactics are so dishonest.
The JW film maker, Fritz Poppenburg, has also produced documentaries about the WTS version of the JWs in WW2. The WTS' commitment to revisionist history is remarkable.
The WTS has infiltrated the medical community with anit-blood films that are produced by JWs and pretending that they are "independent", and they do the same with everything else that they want to spread disinformation about. The web of deceit just doesn't seem to quit and the WTS isn't satisfied with only pulling the wool over its members' eyes, they are also targeting the academic world and the medical community with their propaganda. The WTS deception has insidiously spread far beyond the confines of the Tower.
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40
How many Atheist organizations or irreligious organizations have been accused of the covering up child abuse?
by jwleaks ini don't know of any but would like some references if anyone does.
of course not all atheists or irreligious people need to belong to an organization.. studies on the demographics of atheism have concluded that self-identified atheists comprise anywhere from 2% to 8% of the world's population, whereas irreligious individuals represent a further 10% to 20%.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/demographics_of_atheism.
jw leaks .
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OrphanCrow
Schools are notorious for covering up child abuse.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/
Consider the statistics: In accordance with a requirement of President Bush's No Child Left Behind Act, in 2002 the Department of Education carried out a study of sexual abuse in the school system.
Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft looked into the problem, and the first thing that came to her mind when Education Week reported on the study were the daily headlines about the Catholic Church.
"[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."In 1992, the National Victim Center estimated that 29 percent of all forcible rapes in America were against children under age 11. More than a decade later, an estimated 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 7 boys are victims of unwanted sexual acts.
The 2002 Department of Education report estimated that from 6 percent to 10 percent of all students in public schools would be victims of abuse before graduation — a staggering statistic.http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/05/09/3436066/west-virginia-rape-school-coverup/
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/05/pa_high_school_searched_in_sex.html
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Lorenz Reibling gives interview about real estate
by OrphanCrow inthis interview was posted april 16, 2015 on youtube.
lorenz reibling's replies to the reporter in argentina are in english.. lorenz reibling is intimately connected to the watchtower society and, according to some sources, is a jw himself.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ssa-9yvii.
so who is lorenz reibling?
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OrphanCrow
I am back to chasing those Reibling squirrels today...
This latest find reveals how the WTS is involved in producing propaganda to further their world view. And, they do it under the guise of "outside" academic research.
Lorenz and Laura have been busy again with their foundation money - they have financed the following documentary film:
The Name of God
Documentary Film,
DVD, 58 minutes in 2014
(languages: German, English, French, Danish)
. The only name of God, YHWH, appears in more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Scriptures
and there is no doubt what we "sanctify" this name, as taught by the "Our Father"
Yet millions of Jews and Christians do not do not even know the divine name. Their prayers addressed to God, so often seems unclear what is meant Lord -. The "Lord" Jesus or "Lord" God
is more important, the title "Lord" has a connotation disconcerting once you know that "Lord" is "Baal" means in the ancient languages of Babylon
This documentary examines whether the concealment of name God is really in harmony with the original Scriptures - and far more, is the correct pronunciation of YHWH can be found again.
This documentary film is academically and scientifically supported by:
Rolf Furuli, Norway
Gérard Gertoux, France Financing (LLRFF) and Laura Lorenz Family Foundation Additional;Stoops Manufacturing, a well known JW owned company, says this about the film:
https://stoopsmanufacturing.com/ns/the-name-of-god-documentary-film-2015/
It is a privilege to be given an opportunity to offer this, non-denominational, documentary on DVD.
This new video shows research by professors and other professionals as well as archaeological proofs about the name of God, Jehovah.
This video points out that God’s name has been “veiled” and continues to be hidden by deeply entrenched beliefs. Solid and convincing archaeological proof is presented that shows that the veiling of God’s name is misguided.
If you know someone who says, “I will consider anything as long as it’s not from Jehovah’s Witnesses”, this video may be of interest to them. It is a very easy to watch and informative video.
Final note: Soon after its popular release in Germany, it came under scrutiny by a church in Rome that questioned its validity.Stoops has blatantly misrepresented the film as being "not from Jehovah's Witnesses" when the film was financed by JWs - the Reiblings - and Rolf Furuli is a Jehovah's Witness.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/218342/what-happened-rolf-furuli?page=1&size=20
Any film that is financed by JWs, and has JWs involved in the production of it, cannot be considered as unbiased work. It cannot be called "non-denominational" when there are JWs are involved in the production of it.
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JCPenney removes a billboard after.....
by Iamallcool injcpenney removes a billboard after complaints that the tea kettle featured resembled adolf hitler.
does it look like hitler to you?
does it offend you?
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OrphanCrow
Obliette: Hitler in a Tea Kettle, Jesus in a Tortilla ... what is the world coming to?
The problem with comparing a piece of toast to an image that has been constructed, is that the billboard was deliberately made and the toast wasn't.
This comparison ignores the basic fact that the Hitler teapot had a maker - the artist was in charge, not a toaster (and the comparison is rather insulting to graphic artists).
The billboard should have been removed. Placing an image that many people (obviously not everybody here...) associated with Adolph Hitler near a Jewish cemetery is socially irresponsible. I don't buy for a single second that the image resembling Hilter was accidental. Nope - don't buy it. The artist's rendition of the teapot was purposeful and the placement may have just been ignorance, but, regardless, it was in bad taste.
Saying any different is saying that advertising agencies and the artists that produce their images, are brain dead. They aren't. They are trained professionals who don't just stick a billboard in a toaster or slap it on a stove top and hope for good results.
Advertising professionals know what they are doing. It is what they are paid for and they do it very well.
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Are the Governing Body Members Mentally Ill?
by Oubliette indata-dog: i believe that many of them would actually be considered mentally ill, if they were ever tested.. .
great question and intriguing hypothesis.
lets take an armchair psychologists view and see what we shall see.
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OrphanCrow
Finkelstein:Other symptoms in addition to the ones defined by DSM-IV-TR...
...pssst...the current psychiatric "bible" is the DSM 5. The DSM IV is considered to be out of date.
As far as whether or not the GB are "mentally ill" - I challenge anyone to look in the DSM 5 and not find a disorder that you can fit in. The term "mentally ill" covers a broad spectrum of disorders, ranging from depression to full blown psychosis. Mental illness is not something that means "people who think different than me", and it does not mean "people that we can call schizophrenic". Schizophrenia is a complicated disorder that should not be bandied around to explain things about people's behavior that they don't understand. That does a great disservice to people who actually do suffer from schizophrenia.
The organization itself can be classified as "psychopathic". So, it would depend on how a person was diagnosing the people who run that organization - are they being measured against the larger society's standards of "normal" or are they being measured against the organization's notion of what "normal" is? In the WT culture, what may seem "mental illness" to outsiders could very well be "normal" for the context that those people are operating in.
Are the GB functional within their own culture ? Probably.
Are the GB functional within the larger culture? Probably not.
phizzy: It interests me that the Mental Health professionals exclude religious delusions from the list of delusions they rate as "mental illness". Why ?
Because the pope and all other special people who make their living on deluding other people could be then be classified as having a mental disorder. The DSM 5 has to exempt religious delusion - the manual comes out of a culture that still places religion on a pedestal. Classifying religious delusion as a mental disorder would collapse the social structures that produced the manual.
The only place that you would be able to find religious delusion classified as a mental disorder is in cultures that do not have religion - but, then, you would have to add a new disorder - "authority delusion" - into the mix.
