Posts by darkspilver

43

Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

my friends,.

what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.

darkspilver

Hey joe134cd!

If anyone thinks that hanging it isn't worshiping it, then my suggestion would be go hang a flag ( and by extention of that a Christmas tree) out side your house and see what sort of reaction you get from the local JWS.

No, the issue is what is caesar's law?

The vast majority of countries do not have a law that requires non-governmental public buildings (or, indeed private houses) to display the flag:

In Austria in 1938 there was a law requiring the display of the flag
In Chile there is a law requiring the displaying of the flag on non-governmental public buildings on one-day-a-year.
There is NO law requiring the display of the flag on your house in your country.

That's the difference.

Don't get me wrong - I do think it is an issue - but you gotta make sure it is the right issue - actually I'm kinda surprised they don't get the CO's to strongly lean on congregations at least 'off-the-record.'

It may be the law that your private car number plate needs to display the flag of the country you are from - that is OK

If I put a flag sticker on my car - not required by law - that would not be allowable for JWs

43

Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

my friends,.

what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.

darkspilver

Hey John Free!

Watchtower is breaking its own rules on this matter in order to save money. In their own literature flags are referred to as 'objects of veneration'. Objects of veneration are idols. Also in their own literature it isn't simply the veneration of idols that is condemned but the very possession of an idol that is condemned.

When driving your car in another country you normally need to display some kind of national identification mark on the rear.

Also see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_European_Union

Also don't ships, boats and yachts etc need to display an ensign at certain times?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensign

Watchtower 15 January 1977, page 63, paragraph 4

Questions From Readers: May a Christian raise or lower a flag at his place of work?
Often the national flag is displayed at public buildings and assembly places, such as firehouses, municipal offices and schools. In view of their respect for the government and what is used to represent it, Jehovah’s Witnesses have no objection to being in or working at buildings where the national flag is on display. Similarly, a flag might appear on postage stamps, automobile plates or other government-produced items. Yet that does not mean that a person of the public who uses such is necessarily participating in devotional acts toward the flag. What is significant is not the presence of a flag but how a person acts toward it, what he does.

Link to scans

43

Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

my friends,.

what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.

darkspilver

OK, found what I was after regarding playing National Anthems - it's in the confidential Correspondence Guildlines which they use if you write into Bethel

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6122134262775808/branch-correspondence-guidelines

School and Jehovah's Witnesses (1983), page 29, paragraph 2

Class Instruction - Music and Art Instruction
Even during practice sessions, Witness students would not share in playing national anthems or songs connected with religious or national holidays.

Branch Correspondence Guildlines, page 57, paragraph 4

Flag Salute and Anthems
If a person in a band or an orchestra participated in playing a national anthem in a patriotic ceremony, he would thus be expressing total agreement and making an essential contribution to the patriotic act. A Christian could not do this and remain in good standing in the congregation. In contrast, if music instruction in school required a student to show that he could play a certain anthem, not as part of a ceremony, but merely as a demonstration of musical skill to the instructor, this would be a matter for personal decision.

Link to scans

43

Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

my friends,.

what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.

darkspilver

Hey pale.emperor!

Hang on, hang on... so that brother in the convention video who refused to play the Soviet national anthem on his violin COULD have all along? And he went to prison for not doing it?

I suppose, if it wasn't part of a nationalistic ceremony, then yes - it was his personal conscience decision, but...

But, he might also have also reasoned that when he played it, the uniformed officiers present would have saluted and that - in the brothers eyes - would have made it into a nationalistic ceremony which the brother wanted no part of.

Also, notice how he didn't say, "I don't know how to play it" (and a badly played national anthem might be viewed as being disrespectful in itself) - he might have had to learn to to play it - technically as it were - for a music exam.

43

Oops, I did it again! Flag placed in the KH: Chile 2016

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

my friends,.

what has become now a yearly tradition for me: getting the videos/photos of the flag in chile for their national holidays.. this is the 2016 version, i believe the clearest example yet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94j3lmqx_w&feature=youtu.be.

darkspilver

TBH I think the comparision with Malawi, somewhat muddies the water. Best to keep it as siple as possible

I believe the clearest comparision, was what I highlighted two years ago regarding the situation in Austria in April 1938

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/284857/chile-flag-true-undeniable-evidence?page=9#/5100458

I understand that for both Chile and Austria, it is /was "caesar's law" that a flag was to be displayed (with evidently no other acts of devotion required?)

Of course WT precedes the Austrian example in the year book with a very loaded comment - but surely that is also the intent in Chile - after all it is 'National Day'.

I believe the 'fine' for not displaying that flag in Chile is affordable to pay, and I would be perfectly happy with congregation donations/funds being using to pay it - if indeed they do get fined as it seems it's a bit ad hoc.

Sister Altenbuchner in Austria decided not to display a flag - "for reasons of conscience."

I suspect JWs reading that would agree, and say, of course we wouldn't display the flag, but...

But, the year book makes no play regarding scriptural principles etc etc in the experience - purely that she decided the way she did because of her own personal "reasons of conscience."

Others may have decided it was "caesar's law" and therefore compiled with the law - much like some congregations in Chile?

Link to scans

79

Plans for huge Jehovah's HQ take shape

by Formerbrother in

http://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/11227290.plans_for_huge_jehovah_s_hq_take_shape/.

its going to be a real beautiful place when its finished.. they are going for quality over quantity.

it used to be accommodation for a few thousand permanent residents, now its looking like less than a thousand permanent with the possibility of a few thousand more in temporary accommodation should the need arise.. some say the plans are going to be like a garden of eden in england :) i mean they had farming in london over the years but this is going to be epic what they are planning for temple farm at chelmsford.. they are planting thousands (literally) of fruit trees, including tropical fruits in huge green houses, huge vines yards and then the same basic farming activities as before.

darkspilver

HI Formerbrother!

There is going to be another big meeting in Bows Road Assembly hall to try to drum up volunteers.

Yes, we know - all the dates, venues and the programme were posted here a month ago

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5703626102145024/britain-branch-relocation-project-7-boes

Oh, and by saying 'another big meeting', you are implying there has already been a big meeting at Bowes Road regarding the project - when did that take place????

Perhaps more interestingly there is gonna be a 5 minute video presentation regarding the project at ALL KHs in Britain during the 'Local Needs' of the CLAM week starting 3 October 2016.

8

It's a sign! It's a sign I tell you!

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

but where is the sign?

maybe it should have a third sign?

don't worry, the lovely brothers and sisters at the deauville congregation want to say hello to caleb and sophia.

darkspilver

Hey Wasanelder Once!

No comprende senior.

Well firstly, despite initial appearances, "lieu de culte" is kinda correct French - the JW's evidently paid the costs of the sign and would no doubt have had some input on the wording after all - it just means "place of worship."

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieu_de_culte

http://www.parisinfo.com/visiter-a-paris/lieux-de-culte/culte-catholique

The actual 'spelling issue' was what the vandals did..... they scrubbed out, not just the the 'e' to spell 'cult' (in English) but rather the 'te' to spell 'cul' (in French).

Hence my comment regarding family worship being about Balaam - which is a play on words - as cul basically means your back side / bottom, or 'ass'.

And Don Camillo? - the rather long winded newspaper article regarding the goings on in Trouville-sur-Mer (population 5,000) - which I am sure is a very very nice place - reminded me of the books I used to enjoy reading by the Italian Giovannino Guareschi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Camillo

7

Has anyone here run for a political office now that they are out of Jws ?

by troubled mind in

jw
friends

i am thinking of running for alderman on my city council .

the mayor had a meeting with me yesterday and is anxious to replace the alderman in my ward .

she liked what i had to say at a council meeting a few weeks ago during public comments .

darkspilver

There's gay Phillip Di Biase who is currently campaigning for Hune City Council in Australia.

Elections take place 22 October 2016

http://phillipdi.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct1aTK5arPw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFmNVklnSMs

http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/national-news/victoria-news/meet-gay-hume-city-council-candidate-quit-jehovahs-witness-community/152367

8

It's a sign! It's a sign I tell you!

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

but where is the sign?

maybe it should have a third sign?

don't worry, the lovely brothers and sisters at the deauville congregation want to say hello to caleb and sophia.

darkspilver

If you can't read french, please stop reading now!

This is a story about a sign, but not just any sign, oh no!

This is a french sign in the sunny little coastal town of Trouville-sur-Mer in Normandy.

Look! See how nice it is! This is Claude Monet's painting of the sea front.

But where is the sign? Ah, yes, the sign!

The sign isn't on the beach. That's because it's a road sign. Here is a picture of the sign:

See! It has two signs! Maybe it should have a third sign? Why? Because people get lost

People in their cars wiz around that corner and get lost

Who are in the car? Caleb and Sophia!

Where are they going?

To the Kingdom Hall of course!

It's located down the on road on the right hand side. But they get lost

Oh no!

Don't worry, the lovely brothers and sisters at the Deauville Congregation want to say hello to Caleb and Sophia. They don't want them getting lost, even if Trouville-sur-Mer is actually quite a nice town to get lost in.

The brothers and sisters at the Deauville Congregation take a collection and raise enough money so they can go the Mayor of the town and pay for a sign to be put up!

Isn't that good! Now Caleb and Sophia can find their way to the Kingdom Hall!

And the brothers and sisters can say hello to them!

Oh, but wait, not everyone is happy

Look what they have done to the sign!

Hmmm, maybe family worship this week will be about Balaam?

And that's not all! Look at the front page of the newspaper!

Oh dear!

Ah well, welcome to the world of Don Camillo. Who? Don Camillo - don't worry, it's an Italian thing

http://www.lepaysdauge.fr/2016/09/21/la-taxe-de-sejour-et-un-panneau-indicateur-mettent-le-maire-en-difficulte/

6

Elders preparing for the GT?

by StarTrekAngel in

i know this conversation has come up in other threads.

it is just funny that last night i received this message on my phone.

could this be elders feeling that they need to prepare and find a way to reach all brothers as quickly as possible in preparation for something?

darkspilver

haha, no it's just often the best way to get even general and mundane announcement and info out to everyone - and stops people complaining that they aren't in the know regarding dates for CO visits, assemblys, congregation get-togethers, cleaning, gardening etc etc.

And obviously is also great for unforseen emergencies etc

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/shortcuts/2016/sep/20/new-york-bombings-wireless-emergency-alerts

And anyway be honest, if there's an emergency, who wants to spend a couple of hours on the phone telephoning people - 2 minutes to send out a group text to everyone - job done