no lie they are here right now

by gringojj 45 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    She said that some guy prophecied that cyrus would rule babylon 200 years before it happened? She said this can be proven secularly. Anyone know about this?

    This would be Isaiah. It all depends if the prophecy in Isaiah was written before or after the occupation. Scholars are divided on that one.

    http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrus_I/babylon06.html

    http://www.mikecantwell.com/Topics/Old%20Testament/Isaiah.htm

    Don't worry. She is depending on the Reasoning book being the final authority on the matter. You have the entire internet at your disposal.

  • FreeWilly
    FreeWilly

    Great Job, I especially love the "loving God" vs Hitler analogy. I used that exact same comparison with my folks when they were congratulating themselves on their peaceful nuetrality stance. They have since stopped trying to re-convert me.

    I had a couple o' sista's stop about a month ago and i asked them why God massacred the Caananites over real-estate . They promised to return with someone who would have magic answers too. No such luck yet.

    what fun!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Watch out, they may next try "divide and conquer", getting your (perceived compliant) wife alone. They also may bring along a "heavy hitter" next time.

  • Legolas
    Legolas
    Then she came back and said not every baptised jw is going to the new system, and not every non-jw will be murdered.

    That's a load of sh*t! There was a debate going on between 2 congo's and it ended by saying No NON JW's will be there! I think the scripture they used was 1 Peter 3:21 and others!

  • gringojj
    gringojj

    Legolas she said jehovah will judge people on thier heart condition. Jgnat I will check that out.

  • gringojj
    gringojj

    It doesnt matter if they send over heavy hitters (lol), jw religion does not stand up to common sense! It was an absolute breeze taking these 2 on. I am sure logic could tear apart even a heavy hitter.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I figure, to be forewarned is to be forearmed. Here's the corresponding article in the Insight book. Highlighting added. Red text are my comments.

    *** it-1 1221-3 Isaiah, Book of ***
    Unity of Writership. Certain Bible critics in modern times have contended that the book of Isaiah was not all written by Isaiah. Some claim that chapters 40 through 66 were written by an unidentified person who lived about the time of the end of the Jews’ Babylonian exile. Other critics pare off additional portions of the book, theorizing that someone other than Isaiah must have written them. But the Bible itself does not agree with these contentions.

    Inspired writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures credited both the material now designated chapters 1 to 39 and chapters 40 to 66 to “Isaiah the prophet.” They never intimated that there were two persons who bore this name or that the name of the writer of part of the book was unknown. (For examples compare Mt 3:3 and Mt 4:14-16 with Isa 40:3 and Isa 9:1, 2; also Joh 12:38-41 with Isa 53:1 and Isa 6:1, 10.) In addition to this, there are numerous other places where the Christian Greek Scripture writers specifically credit material quoted from the latter part of the book of Isaiah, not to an unidentified writer, but to “Isaiah the prophet.” (Compare Mt 12:17-21 with Isa 42:1-4; Ro 10:16 with Isa 53:1.) Jesus Christ himself, when he read from “the scroll of the prophet Isaiah” at the synagogue in Nazareth, was reading from Isaiah 61:1, 2.—Lu 4:17-19.

    Furthermore, the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah (IQIs a , believed to have been copied toward the end of the second century B.C.E.) contains evidence that the copyist who penned it knew nothing of any supposed division in the prophecy at the close of chapter 39. He began the 40th chapter on the last line of the column of writing that contains chapter 39.

    The entire book of Isaiah has been passed down through the centuries as a single work, not as two or more. The continuity from chapter 39 to chapter 40 is evident in what is recorded at Isaiah 39:6, 7, which is an obvious transition to what follows.

    *Those who would credit the book to more than one writer do not feel that it was possible for Isaiah to have foretold nearly two centuries in advance that a ruler named Cyrus would liberate the exiled Jews; consequently they speculate that this was written at a later time, at least after Cyrus began his conquests. (Isa 44:28; 45:1) But they fail to grasp the import of this entire portion of the book, because the material specifically deals with foreknowledge, with the ability of God to tell in advance what would happen to his people. Nearly 200 years in advance this prophecy recorded the name of one not yet born who would conquer

    Those who deny that Isaiah wrote chapters 40 through 66 usually, for like reasons, deny that he wrote chapter 13, concerning the fall of . Yet chapter 13 is introduced with the words: “The pronouncement against that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw in vision.” Obviously, this is the same “Isaiah the son of Amoz” whose name appears in the opening verse of chapter 11:1.

    *Note that the Insight book assigns motive to these scholars. This is considered adequate dismissal to a JW.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother
    said jehovah will judge people on thier heart condition

    Of course he will - and if they are not "In the Truth" by the big day, doesn't it prove that their heart is not right??

    The line about personal judgement is the one they use for the outsiders. Just attend a service meeting and see how they really believe that if you are not a fully baptised practicing dub, We are food for the vultures - fat lot they care since they will have paradise...

  • xjwms
    xjwms

    Kill em with Kindness

  • vitty
    vitty

    The best thing to do is stick to something you know about, something basic.

    This made me realize how much of a mantre they repeat, because so did I, Im sure everyone here has spoken the exact words that those 2 did. Thats why shell bring reinforcements cos she can only go so far.

    So pick a subject that interests you and we`ll try and help you conteract it. It wont be hard !

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