by Momofmany 43 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Momofmany

    Last night my Mom and I were talking. She asked me to give her one reason other than the UN and 607 why I can't go back to the kh. I told her, Jesus is my mediator. The society says, he's only there for the 144,000. Jesus is for them, and the society is for the great crowd. She told me she has never heard of such a thing, and I need to get my facts straight.

    I said, I learned that while I was studying, years ago. And it says it in the insight/aid book. (they both say the same thing) She said I misunderstand what is written. Is this anywhere else? Or am I really misunderstanding things?

    Edited for spelling.

  • OldSoul


    w89 8/15 p. 30
    Questions From Readers· Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the "mediator" who "gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"?

    This Question From Readers is incredibly plain-spoken. You did not misunderstand.

    Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using "mediator" in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. Rather, it refers to Christ as legal Mediator (or, "attorney") of the new covenant, this being the restricted way in which the Bible uses the term. Jesus is also a corresponding ransom for all in that covenant, both Jews and Gentiles, who will receive immortal life in heaven.

    Hope it helps,

  • kwintestal

    There also was some discussion about it on this thread (bottom of page):


  • JH

    If Jesus isn't our mediator, then when we pray Jehovah, we should use the Watchtower Org as mediator between us and Jehovah.......

    ...all might Jehovah, we address this prayer to you by our mediator in new york, the watchtower bible and tract society.

  • blondie

    The WTS has discussed this more recently than 1989 (sorry I don't have the exact quote) but most JWs sleep right throught this point, new covenant (law covenant) = mediator Jesus (Moses) = spiritual Israelites (fleshly Israelites).

    *** w03 2/15 p. 22 What Does the Lord’s Evening Meal Mean to You? ***

    The parties to the new covenant are God and anointed ones. (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 12:22-24) Jesus is the mediator. Made operative by Christ’s shed blood, the new covenant took out not only from the Jews but also from the nations a people for Jehovah’s name and made them part of Abraham’s "seed." (Galatians 3:26-29; Acts 15:14) This "everlasting covenant" provides for all spiritual Israelites to be resurrected to immortal life in heaven.—Hebrews 13:20.

    *** w96 9/1 p. 14 The Law of the Christ ***

    Who would be taken into this new covenant? Certainly not the literal "house of Israel," who rejected the Mediator of this covenant. (Hebrews 9:15) No, this new "Israel" would be the "Israel of God," a nation of spiritual Israelites. (Galatians 6:16; Romans 2:28, 29) This small, spirit-anointed group of Christians would later be joined by "a great crowd" from all nations who would also seek to worship Jehovah. (Revelation 7:9, 10; Zechariah 8:23) While not party to the new covenant, these too would be bound by law. (Compare Leviticus 24:22; Numbers 15:15.)

    *** w92 3/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

    What about the new covenant between Jehovah and the nation of spiritual Israel? Jesus Christ had the glorious role of go-between, the Mediator between Jehovah and spiritual Israel.

    *** w91 2/15 p. 18 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***

    Especially since 1935 has there been a concerted effort to gather such ones. Revelation 7:9-17 describes them as "a great crowd" who owe salvation to God and to the Lamb. They still need to survive "the great tribulation" and be ‘guided to fountains of waters of life,’ for Revelation 20:5 shows that such ones will become fully alive, having perfect human life, by the end of the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. Those who then pass a final test in their perfect human state will be declared righteous for everlasting life on earth.—Revelation 20:7, 8.

    Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God’s Kingdom.

    They get confused because 1 Timothy 2:5 says-

    "There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus."—1 Timothy 2:5.

    And most JWs apply that to mediating prayer to God and since all JWs, anointed and great crowd, pray to God through Christ they assume Christ is the mediator for the GC too.

    The WTS has applied it that way.

    *** w75 7/1 p. 402 Coming to the Hearer of Prayer ***

    To communicate readily with the heavenly Father, one must accept Christ Jesus as Lord. Peace with God can come only through the appointed way, the ransom provision by the Lord Jesus. (Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6) He is the provision for approach to God in prayer and reconciliation with him. Jesus rightly declared: "No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

    He is the "helper" that plays a vital role in our having access to the Hearer of prayer. (1 John 2:1, 2)

    *** jt (2000) p. 13 What Do They Believe? ***

    Prayers are to be directed John 14:6, 13, 14; 1 Tim. 2:5

    only to Jehovah through Christ

  • Leolaia

    To understand why the Society claims that the "anointed" are the mediators for the "great crowd", see my post on the history of the "mystery doctrine," which is the root of this idea:

    Here are some explicit statements:

    *** w91 2/15 p. 18 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***

    Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God’s Kingdom.

    ***w89 8/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

    The people of all nations who have the hope of everlasting life on earth benefit even now from Jesus’ services. Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah.

    ***it-2 p. 362 Mediator ***

    Those for Whom Christ Is Mediator. The apostle Paul declares that there is "one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"—for both Jews and Gentiles. (1Ti 2:5, 6) He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. ... The total number of those who are finally and permanently sealed is revealed in Revelation 7:4-8 as 144,000.

    *** ws chap. 1 pp. 10-11 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide *** Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.

    ***w79 4/1 p. 31 Questions from Readers ***

    Reasonably Paul was here using the word "mediator" in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is "mediator." So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.

    As for the Great Crowd, they receive their salvation through the anointed and not from Christ directly:

    ***w98 2/1 p. 22 The Other Sheep and the New Covenant ***

    They will become "the camp of the holy ones," earthly representatives of "the beloved city," the heavenly bride of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 14:1; 20:9; 21:2) All of this will be possible because of their faith in Jesus’ shed "blood of the covenant" and their subjection to the heavenly kings and priests, who when on earth were the Israel of God.

    ***re chap. 21 p. 136 Jehovah’s Plagues on Christendom ***

    The elders in most of the 55,000-and-more congregations in the world today are of the great crowd. (Revelation 1:16; 7:9) What is their position? Since they receive their appointment by holy spirit through the anointed faithful and discreet slave class, these can be said to be under Jesus’ right hand of control, for they are also his undershepherds.

    ***w81 8/1 p. 26 Harvesting in the "Time of the End" ***

    The fact that the "harvest" of the "sons of the kingdom" is well advanced proves that the "conclusion [synte´leia] of the system of things" is nearing its end (telos). Your attitude toward the wheatlike anointed "brothers" of Christ and the treatment you accord them will be the determining factor as to whether you go into "everlasting cutting-off" or receive "everlasting life." (Matt. 25:34-46) Prove yourself to be a loyal companion of the anointed "wheat" class, the "faithful and discreet slave," whom Christ has appointed to provide spiritual "food at the proper time." (Matt. 24:45)

    ***w79 11/15 p. 27 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men" ***

    Today, according to authentic records, there is a "great crowd" of dedicated, baptized Christians who actively collaborate with the small remnant of spiritual Israelites. Ever since the spring of 1938 they have been invited to attend the annual memorial celebration of Christ’s death, not to partake of the memorial emblems, the unleavened bread and the red wine, but as respectful observers....Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the "alien resident" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant....To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites. Why? Because these spiritual Israelites are the "holy nation" of which we read in Jeremiah 31:35, 36, right after God’s promise of the new covenant.

    ***Then Is Finished the Mystery of God, 1969 p. 208, 367-368.***

    Thus through associating with the anointed remnant of the "little flock" before the "great tribulation," this "great crowd" of "other sheep" now enjoy things similar to those that were foretold for the remnant after they got out of Babylon the Great and were restored to Jehovah God's organization....The Bride class is just as deserving of the confidence of all people on earth as is the Bridegroom, the King Jesus Christ.

    ***w60 7/15 p. 440 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***

    Down to their dying day these faithful spirit-begotten, anointed sons of God will be shedding forth their "leaves" of service co-operation to help those of the "great crowd" toward their being healed. Yes, these "trees" are confirmed to be the anointed ones, because later, in this same prophecy, they are referred to as members of the "bride" class, those destined to be of Christ’s bride of 144,000 in heaven. (Eph. 5:23) And so it is as the "bride" that they keep on saying "Come!" to all men of good will to take of the ‘waters of life’ that are being channeled through the "slave’s" Watch Tower Society.
  • OldSoul
    Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God’s Kingdom.

    This is an important quote. Who makes up God's Kingdom? ... They experience benefits through the work of God's Kingdom? What does that do to the "theory" that they experience benefits through the shed blood of Christ?

    It destroys it. It spits on it. That's what it does.


  • Oroborus21


    I think the problem is in the use of the language. At times very limited meanings of the term "mediator" are used and at other times looser meanings are applied.

    Normally, we tend to use a very broad meaning that "mediator" means simply a go-between. Someone that serves as a third-party facilitator or who is the means by which something is accomplished between two parties.

    Thus when we talk about PRAYER, we view Jesus as between us and Jehovah God and thus sometimes refer to him as a mediator of that situation. Jesus is a mediator (or more accurately a facilitator) for ALL mankind when it comes to prayer to Almighty God.

    Similarly, when we look at Grace (or Undeserved Kindness as JWs call it) and Salvation we understand that it is because of Christ's sacrifice, the value of his life, that he is able to present to Jehovah God in our behalf, that by means of that sacrifice our sins may be forgiven and we may receive Salvation through the Grace of God. Thus in this since Jesus again is a mediator for all mankind in this regard.

    The Society has a very limited meaning of "mediator" when it comes to the NEW COVENANT, that is the promise to those 144,000 that they will serve as Kings and Priests in Heaven (as a ruling class) (this is of course traditional JW theology not my own private belief).

    Thus when it comes to that CONTRACT or COVENANT, they mean that Jesus is the attorney (aka mediator) that will argue before Jehovah God the merits and terms of the contract on behalf of the beneficiaries (the 144,000). Because, according to traditional JW theology, this contract or covenant is between God (Jesus as God's agent or representative on Earth is the one that actually made the contract) and only the 144,000, when it comes to talking about this situation the Society says that Jesus is thus only the mediator for the 144,000 which makes sense.

    So you see with regard to the above there isn't really any contradictions or conflict with the scriptures. It is just a problem of what we mean when we are talking about Jesus being a mediator and what the situation is. So both you and your mother were correct in a sense.

    -Eduardo Leaton Jr.

    PS: When it comes to FORGIVENESS FROM SINS, CONFESSION, and a sinner reaching SPIRITUAL HEALTH again, since June 1, 2001, the Society has set up ELDERS as an additional layer between God and Jehovah's Witnesses and thus in my view they have violated the Scriptures and the fact that only Jesus should serve as a mediator between God and Mankind.

    See this info:

    [excerpt of entire article] Questions From Readers

    In view of Jehovah's willingness to forgive sins by the merit of the ransom sacrifice, why is it necessary for Christians to confess to the older men in the congregation?

    As can be seen in the case of David and Bath-sheba, Jehovah forgave David's sin, grave though it was, because of David's genuine repentance. When the prophet Nathan approached him, David openly confessed: "I have sinned against Jehovah." - 2 Samuel 12:13

    However, Jehovah not only accepts a sinner's sincere confession and extends forgiveness but he also makes loving provisions to help the erring one progress to spiritual recovery. In David's case, the help came through the prophet Nathan. Today, in the Christian congregation, there are spiritually mature older men, or elders. The disciple James explains: "Is there anyone [spiritually] sick among you? Let him call the older men of the congregation to him, and let them pray over him, greasing him with oil in the name of Jehovah. And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, and Jehovah will raise him up. Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him." - James 5:14, 15.

    Skillful elders can do much to ease the pain of heart that is felt by the remorseful sinner. They strive to imitate Jehovah in their dealings with him. They never want to be harsh, even though strong discipline maybe warranted. Rather, they compassionately consider the immediate needs of the individual. Patiently they strive to readjust erring one's thinking by using God's Word. (Galatians 6:1)

    Even if a person does not voluntarily confess his sin, he may still be moved to repentance when approached by the elders, as David was when approached by Nathan. The support thus rendered by the elders helps the one to avoid the danger of repeating the sin and the serious consequences of becoming a hardened practicer of sin. - Hebrews 10:26-31.

    It is certainly not easy to confess to others deeds that one feels ashamed of and to seek forgiveness. It takes inner strength. Reflect for a moment, though, on the alternative. One man who failed to reveal his serious sin to the elders in the congregation said: "I felt a pain in my heart that would not go away. I increased my efforts in the preaching work, but the sickening feeling remained." He felt that confession to God in prayer was enough, but clearly it was not, for he experienced feelings similar to King David's. (Psalm 51:8, 11) How much better to accept the loving assistance that Jehovah provides through the elders!

    The Watchtower, June 1, 2001, pg. 31]

    , as of June 2001, and largely without any notice or concern on the part of the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Society has instituted what it claims does not exist: the separation of a "clergy" and "laity" class and the institution of persons serving as an intercessory before God. It has now vested congregational Elders with the role of "mediator" between a person and Christ Jesus in direct contradiction to the Scriptures. If any Witness doubts that this is not the case all such one has to do is to approach a local elder and pose the question of whether a baptized publisher must make confession of a serious sin to the Elders or whether it is possible for such one to obtain complete forgiveness and spiritual healing from God alone without having to confess to the Elders.

  • kid-A

    I dont understand why anybody would need another reason beyond the UN and 607 debacles to avoid going back to the KH.

  • Momofmany

    Oh My, I surely did not think that there was this much information. I can't thank you all enough. (I've been saying that a lot lately. Don't know what I would do without you all) I need to go thru my boxes and see if I can find the original mags/bound vol.

    Oroborus, I must have missed this one. I was always told that confession was wrong. That it was wrong for Catholics to confess. Because a priest is just a man. So why confess to the elders? I know, I know, no one has the answers. That is just new to me.

    Leolaia, What is *** ws chap. 1 pp. 10-11? I should know what ws is, but I don't.

    Kid-A- I don't get it either.

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