Can any JW answer OldSoul's 4 questions about JW teachings scripturally?

by kwintestal 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  OldSoul

  Toreador,

  You would think at least one Witness would step up and try to answer. Even just offering the WT Scriptural proofs, if they exist, would be better than nothing.

  [crickets chirp in the background]

  As, [ahem!] as I said, er...um, so yeah...you would think at least one Witness would...try...to answer.

  Shadow will be back on Tuesday to post, but even he hasn't tried to prove these points yet. His discussion so far has centered around proving that submitting to authority in general is okay, which is really quite a far cry from proving that submitting to a specific authority is required for salvation. I don't question whether it is okay to submit to authority.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
• 

  toreador

  Hello,

  Just checking in to see if I missed anything.

  Shadow I am sure can come up with something.

  Toreador
• 

  gringojj

  Actually Scholar confessed he is not of the "celebrated" class.
• 

  OldSoul

  Witness Lurkers,

  I have a suggestion: Take these questions, tell your elders that an inactive Witness asked them (truth), and you want to get together the Scriptural support for them so you can help this person regain confidence.

  Anyone can try. So far, Shadow is the only one who holds out a hope of a Scriptural answer.

  Since these are "foundational doctrines" why are they not addressed in What Does the Bible Really Teach? The term "Faithful and Discreet Slave" does not appear in the publication, there is no mention that this "Slave" is a class of people; in fact, there is no mention of any requirement to submit to any authority except Jehovah and Jesus. There is also no mention that there is a corporate filter between the student and God when it comes to acquiring clear understanding of Scripture.

  I suppose there is time enough for them to be indoctrinated on those "truths" from gods', i.e. the Governing Body's, Holey Word the Watchtower after they answer yes to the public verbal contract binding them to that corporation.

  In worldly terms, this kind of immoral scam is called "Bait and Switch."

  On page 146 of What Does the Bible Really Teach?, the opening sentence of paragraph 6 purports to represent one criteria for determining the true religion. It reads: "God's servants base their teachings on the Bible."

  Do you do this, Witnesses? Do you base your teachings on the Bible? Or do you find some false premise (e.g. the success of the worldwide preaching work, etc.) to use in dismissing the necessity of this in your case?

  Curiously,
  OldSoul
• 

  OldSoul

  Oh, nevermind! Call of the dogs, we found it!

  Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” chap. 1 p. 10 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide15 It would be out of line with the plain teachings of the Scriptures to believe that God does not have an organization, an organized people, that he exclusively recognizes. Jesus Christ recognized that his heavenly Father had a visible organization.

  Oh, nevermind. The search is back on . You'd think those "plain teachings" would be included in the context of this statement for the easy reference of the earnest student, but, no.

  Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace” chap. 1 pp. 9-11 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide
  The Way to Enjoy Peace With God14 With painful hurt to themselves, most of mankind do not desire to accept or to believe in the Almighty God’s provision for his worshipers to enjoy relative peace and security even in this most lamentable state of human affairs. However, Jehovah is “the God who gives peace,” and it is our blessed privilege now to enter into a peace and security that will never fail. (Romans 16:20; Philippians 4:6, 7, 9) It is a peace and security that he gives even now to his body of earthly servants, his visible organization, in fulfillment of his ever-reliable promises. It is a peace and security that we can enjoy only in association with his visible organization on earth.
  15 It would be out of line with the plain teachings of the Scriptures to believe that God does not have an organization, an organized people, that he exclusively recognizes. Jesus Christ recognized that his heavenly Father had a visible organization. Until Pentecost 33 C.E., it was the Jewish organization in covenant relationship with Jehovah God under the Law of Moses.—Luke 16:16.
  16 Just as the ancient nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah God through the mediator Moses, so the nation of spiritual Israel, “the Israel of God,” has a covenant relationship through a mediator. (Galatians 6:16) It is as the apostle Paul wrote to his Christian fellow worker: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5) Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. This spiritual nation is like a little flock of Jehovah’s sheeplike ones.—Romans 9:6; Revelation 7:4.

  Wow! I count five teachings in these three paragraphs that are entirely unsupported by Scripture. How many can you find?

  How is it comforting to know there is a true organization on earth today that claims to base its teachings on God's word if they don't actually do what they claim to do?

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
• 

  OldSoul

  Shadow,

  I hope your life is going well, and I hope you are still planning to respond.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  toreador

  I hope your life is going well, and I hope you are still planning to respond.

  Respectfully,

  Me too! I check back everyday here to see if I made a mistake in leaving.

  Tor
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  Dune

  I would look for them, but i'm kind lazy right now. I know there in there somewhere tho, lol.
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  outoftheorg

  Ya know, it is just this sort of search and discussion and use of the bible to support or tear down the teachings of wbts and or other religions.

  That got to the point that they just bored the hell out of me.

  The teachings of the wbts, use certain verses in the bible to back up and prove an issue.

  If I read the bible without their publications, I could not make any sense of the wbts teachings and I also could not make any sense out of the bible by itself either. At least for the most part.

  I could not force myself to do this kind of deep study and investigation of the scriptures. When I began to see controversies within the bible on the same or similar subjects I felt like throwing the bible on the floor and stomping on it.

  I appreciate what you are doing,but I don't understand why you would want to.

  Outoftheorg
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  OldSoul

  ??? @ outoftheorg.

  I really don't know what you are talking about. I am still nominally one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't have Scriptures to support these beliefs. I started questioning which beliefs I had actual Scriptural support for when I found out about their 10-year Association to the UN/DPI.

  I am just trying to see if anyone in cyberspace can come up with Scriptures that a BOE and two COs could not come up with, in addition to several other elders.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul