unforgivable sin--sin against the holy spirit (page 2)

Narkissos

About the initial question, cf. Awake! 2/8/2003 p. 12-13:

Why do true Christians take the warning of the unforgivable sin to heart? Because although we have accurate knowledge of God and of the activity of his spirit, a wicked heart could develop. (Hebrews 3:12) We should be careful not to think that this could never happen to us. Consider Judas Iscariot. He was once a faithful follower of Jesus. He was chosen as one of the 12 apostles, so he must have had good qualities. But at some point he began to let wicked thoughts and desires grow, and they eventually overtook him. During the period of time he was an eyewitness of Jesus’ incredible miracles, he was stealing money. Then, for money, he knowingly betrayed the Son of God.
Some people who were once faithful Christians have purposely drawn away from God, perhaps because of bitterness, pride, or greed, and are now apostate fighters against God’s spirit. They willfully oppose what the spirit is clearly accomplishing. Have these individuals committed the unforgivable sin? Jehovah is the final Judge.—Romans 14:12.

from a 69 watchtower... Questions from Readers • What is the unforgivable sin?—E. M., U.S.A. The type of sin mentioned in the Bible as being unforgivable is not simply a category such as stealing, lying or sexual immorality. These things are serious, however, and may involve unforgivable sin. (Rev. 21:8) But the unforgivable sin is deliberate sin against the manifest operation of God’s spirit. It springs from a heart that is thoroughly and forever alienated from God. “Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in the present system of things nor in that to come.”—Matt. 12:31, 32; Mark 3:28, 29; Luke 12:10. Something interesting though is this from a 63 WT.. A brief consideration of Scriptural examples of unforgivable sins and sins that were forgiven should prove enlightening and comforting. From these it will become apparent that it is not so much a matter of what kind of sin it is as it is the motive or heart condition, the degree of negligence and willfulness involved that determines whether it is forgivable or not. These examples show that it is the one who willfully makes a practice of sin after he knows the truth whose sins are unforgivable. Helpful also should be a consideration of what one who has stumbled into sin can do to regain his spiritual equilibrium or balance and joy in Jehovah.

rebel8

Thanks for all the replies. The more recent articles quoted seem to be pretty similar to the older ones I read--basically, it's a sin done with a certain heart condition that no human can discern.

So in other words, when JWs say we "apostates" have committed an unforgivable sin, they are guilty of judging our heart condition--something only J can do?

From WT 4/1/82--Quoted in full compliance with US copyright law for you WT Legal Dept people lurking--I am quoting this for critical review:

If even a proselyte of the Pharisees became a subject for Gehenna 'twice as much so as themselves,' how much more so Judas Iscariot, who made a heinous deal with them to betray God's Son! Jesus implied this when he called Judas "the son of destruction." (John 17:12) Similarly, unrepentant apostates go, at death, not to Sheol, or Hades, but to Gehenna. (Hebrews 6:4-8; 2 Peter 2:1) The same is true of dedicated Christians who persist in willful sin or those who "shrink back." (Hebrews 10:26-31, 38, 39) These are merely examples to show that some, even in "this system of things," have committed the sin for which there is no forgiveness, not even in the system of things "to come." (Matthew 12:31, 32; compare 1 John 5:16.) They will, therefore, not be resurrected.

My thoughts, as a non-bible scholar:

What is the point talking about all these different places people will go if they are all figurative anyway? Just say we will be dead forever. No need for these old Hebrew symbolic terms. It does not clarify, it just makes things more confusing. KISS

Strangely, they give no definition of "persisting in willful sin". Is persisting doing it twice, 3x, 4x? And shrinking back is that bad of a sin to make it unforgivable?

If apostacy is not mentioned in the literature as an unforgivable sin, where do the JWs get the idea it is? hmmmm

anewme

Do you think this scripture might apply only to those of the annointed? Only to those who have received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

It would seem to me to be very cruel to deny those of us who have never benefitted from the added assurance of our heavenly father's love to be cast out as unworthy of forgiveness because we are struggling to live in this world of sin surrounding us and fail to act as worthy sons of God? After all, right before he commenced his work Jesus received the H.S. at his baptism.

How can you sin against the Holy Spirit if you have never received it???????

Maybe only the annointed who deny the little voice can fall this way.

That means that all the rest of us schmucks are by ommission immune to this fate!!!!!

No Holy Spirit-------No sin!!!

We as the great crowd cannot commit the unforgiveable sin.

Hellrider

Yeah, my relatives nr 1 scare tactic when I was gettting out of that crap, at age 16-17, was that those that knew the truth, but still walked away from it, would not get to live in paradise. Especially my grandmother (on dads side), a devoted JW, pulled that crap on me all the time. She`d also use the "imagine how your father (who had died a few years earlier) will feel when he is ressurected, and you`re not there". Thank God almighty that I stopped visiting her.

undercover

Fear, guilt and some more fear. That's all that doctrine adds up to. It keeps the JWs from even considering doubts or questions. It forces them to accept, without question, that the GB is the F&DS. Any notion of doubt makes JWs worry about the unforgivable sin and so they push all doubts out so as to not even flirt with it.

JH

If there was an unforgivable sin, it would be to let the JW's dominate and destroy your life.

VM44

If the Holy Spirit, God's active force, is like the force of electricity, then why is the ultimate, unforgivable sin, a sin against a "force"?

It would be similar to saying, "The worst sin you can do, that is unforgivable, is to sin against the force of electricity!"

I don't get it.

--VM44

Cognitive_Dissident

wow, I was just talking about this with someone about a week ago.

When I was growing up and especially after I was baptized, I used to think myself in circles, usually ending up in a horrible, debilitating fear and depression, that I might have committed the unforgivable sin. The worst thing that I remember hearing was - that no man could judge whether the unforgivable sin had been committed, elders included (though it hasn't stopped them from doing so). This might seem like something that would be relieving, but it had the opposite effect on me. As one who is prone to way too much analytic obsession as it is, it meant that if I had committed the unforgivable sin, there was no one who could tell me that I hadn't, and that no matter how much I tried to reform myself and adhere to "God's law" after the fact, I still might not make it in to the new system. Which added a whole new layer to my already bleak and hopeless view of life.

And when tied up in knots emotionally over something's implications, it's pretty difficult to see the flawed logic behind it.

Bastards.

Bstndance

I would be cast into the firey lake of gehenna!!!

I think I played that level on Mario Kart.

unforgivable sin--sin against the holy spirit