"You guys are the most preachy atheists I've ever met!" (page 4)

Big Dog

Doogie, excellent, excellent post. Very thought provoking. There is an old saying in court, that you have the plaintiff’s story, then you have the defendant’s story, and then you have the truth which usually lies somewhere in the middle.

People rip on me sometimes because I am often hesitant to come down with a firm opinion on an issue because I know, just know there is another pretty compelling argument out there for exactly the opposite position.

But I think most people have pretty firm convictions about things that they feel are important to them, their morality and that sort of thing, also I think most of us believe in more than we realize, basic math, basic science, etc., it’s the stuff that we just aren’t sure about that is tough to get totally behind.

I started a thread awhile ago about how much “science” we take on faith because most of us simply cannot understand the math or the physics behind it, we see the evidence of it when the space shuttle flies or our PC boots up, but we can’t say we truly understand how it works.

So when you get into the really big stuff, God/no God, the origin of the species or the universe I think its normal for people, even people who haven’t come out of the JW’s to be a little hesitant to say, yes, absolutely I think its this way, because yes science is self correcting, but the key is that it is correcting, so the scientific “truth” today may not be the scientific truth tomorrow so maybe I want to hedge my bet a little on that and I think that’s your middle ground.

For instance, I have been pretty well convinced that evolution happened, there just seems to be a lot of “facts” or evidence to suggest it has, but how it got started, or if it was helped along, well, the jury is still out on that one. I see that as a middle ground, I accept certain things but leave the ultimate conclusions open for now.

GetBusyLiving

((Brenda)). Thanks. I should probably apologize for the stoned NIN DVD incident too while im at it..

GBL

Elsewhere

I screamed "GOD IS DEAD" in his face sporadically during a NIN concert DVD. Little things like that I think have been maybe getting to him.

That is not a "little thing". Yelling in a person's face is an exceedingly rude and obnoxious thing to do. You may not think much of such a thing, but many people find it very offensive and irritating.

GetBusyLiving

:You may not think much of such a thing, but many people find it very offensive and irritating.

I exaggerated the whole incident in my post for comedy sake. We were actually laughing about it.

GBL

doogie

what's up BD:

For instance, I have been pretty well convinced that evolution happened, there just seems to be a lot of “facts” or evidence to suggest it has, but how it got started, or if it was helped along, well, the jury is still out on that one. I see that as a middle ground, I accept certain things but leave the ultimate conclusions open for now.

i'm with ya. this is a perfect example of what i meant. in one of carl sagan's books he said that people constantly came up to him asking if he believed in aliens (he was one of the lead designers of the SETI project) and he said he didn't know. they'd say, "c'mon, what do you REALLY believe?...what's your gut feeling?" and he said that sometimes it's ok to just reserve judgment. not having an opinion is a completely acceptable stance.

i just figure, not having all the answers doesn't mean we don't have any.

tetrapod.sapien

Should I just shut the hell up when normies start talking about spiritual topics?

no. if they're talking about a positive position, you have every right to talk about a negative position.

If people think God is interesting, the onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about. Otherwise they should just shut up about it.
-- Richard Dawkins (attributed: source unknown)

i like how many religious people don't think that anyone should be offended when talking about their faith, and yet get offended when others start talking about facts.

plus, religion is dangerous. if you want to help the "lack of belief" meme, you have to talk about it in grassroots social settings.

My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)

As Big Dog said, why try to impose the idea that their isnt a God on someone who has a harmless belief system.

because, belief systems may seem harmless on the surface. but the fact of the matter is that they're not.

To fill a world with ... religions of the Abrahamic kind, is like littering the streets with loaded guns. Do not be surprised if they are used.
-- Richard Dawkins, "Religion's Misguided Missiles" (September 15, 2001)

TS

tetrapod.sapien

here's another one i like:

Society bends over backward to be accommodating to religious sensibilities but not to other kinds of sensibilities. If I say something offensive to religious people, I'll be universally censured, including by many atheists. But if I say something insulting about Democrats or Republicans or the Green Party, one is allowed to get away with that. Hiding behind the smoke screen of untouchability is something religions have been allowed to get away with for too long.
-- Richard Dawkins, quoted in Natalie Angier, "Confessions of a Lonely Atheist," New York Times Magazine, January 14, 2001

GetBusyLiving

..the google adds below are for "pentecostal singles".. I can't escape.

I agree with you Tetra that grassroots talk about facts are nessesary. But It gets exausting to constantly be ad-hom attacked by Christians.. not just dubs - practically everyone I know. Its overwhelming. The world is full of God people. I'm torn between my sense of morality and my desire to go fishing and let everyone do whatever the hell they want.

Im just getting tired of taking this personally. For instance, the JW blood issue. I feel like breaking into Brooklyn bethel and throwing Theodore Jarkaz from a window. The frustration I feel takes a mental toll. Gotta find a way to achieve balance and keep things in perspective.

GBL

LittleToe

Tetra:
Most rational "norms" don't worship Dawkins the way you do. Has he become your meme?

tetrapod.sapien

Most rational "norms" don't worship Dawkins the way you do. Has he become your meme?

hey LT,

he he, i thought you would like my post.

dawkins is the way and the light.

TS

"You guys are the most preachy atheists I've ever met!"

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