Trinity?!?!

by Lynne Y 31 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Lynne Y
    Lynne Y

    Hello, It's Lynne again..

    How's everyone doing?

    um..I have a quick question.. haha..

    One of the most distinguishable doctrine(?) of JW is the thing about trinity.. right?

    Since I grew up in the 'truth'.. I was learned that trinity is all b.s. and Jesus is son of Jehovah and holy spirit is.. um.. I forgot.. anyway something else, right?

    before I thought that made a perfect sense.. no doubt what so ever..

    These days, I read over stuff from other religion, and I'm really confused..

    Is it another stuff WTS misinterpreted, or does non-trinity doctrine (?? lol) have valid reasoning?

    I'll look forward to hear some comments on this matter..

    Thank you for reading my post!!!

    Oh, and have a wonderful weekend everyone!

  • Etude
    Etude

    Hello Lynne:

    I personally have not researched the subject to exhaustion. Therefore, I may not be able to answer your questions. I would like to state my thoughts on the matter with the hope that others can address both of us and perhaps gives us input.

    First, I think that what I've read in the Bible does not support the idea of a trinity, at least as the Catholic Church and other Christian denominations define it:

    "The Blessed Trinity is God according to the doctrine of most branches of Christianity, and according to some non-Christian but Bible based religious groups. The doctrine says that though God is one God, He exists in three distinct persons, usually referred to as God the Father, God the Son (or Son of God), and the Holy Spirit. Historically, this Trinitarian view has been affirmed as an article of faith by the Nicene (325) and Athanasian Creeds (circa 500).

    The word, Trinity, literally means "three-ness". This term does not appear in the Bible, and indeed, it did not exist until Tertullian coined it as the Latin trinitas and also probably the formula Three Persons, One Substance from the Latin tres Personae, una Substantia itself from the Greek treis Hypostases, Homoousios in the early third century. According to Marcellus of Ancyra, On the Holy Church, 9: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

    I don't see much evidence of the duality in the separate yet omnicient, omnipotent and ever-present beings in the Bible.

    Secondly, It just doesn't make sense. I mean: three beings, they are all eternal, all-knowing, all-powerful, distinct yet not different. That is not conducive to the kind of logical understanding that I expect from a Supreme Being. I'm not saying that there aren't things we don't know and probably will not know for a long time. However, I'd rather conclude that "I don't know" instead of pursuing some nebulous idea with dubious backing.

    Thirdly, the trinity (the idea and not the word) is a very ancient concept that was held by many religions before Christianity came along. It's very likely that it was introduced into Christianity by the time Athanasius incorporated it in his Creed. Isis, Horus and Seb were considered a trinity by the Egyptians. The Babylonian trinity of Nimrod, Semiramis, and the god-incarnate son is in places accredited as the root of what later came to be the Christian trinity. I'm not sure if those ancient trinities had the same attributes that the Christina trinity does. However, it's possible that what we have today is an altered or redefined form of that old concept.

    I have read comments by former JWs that now believe in the Holy Trinity and have presented "evidence" from the Bible to show that it indeed supports it. Off the cuff, I don't buy their arguments, although I haven't read all that they present. I found that they would revert to a long-establish dogma of "Christendom" somewhat surprising. Then again, I find it surprising that many ex-JWs have become "Born-Again" Christians (the ones that have felt the Holy Spirit talk to them, etc). That smacks to me as a reactionary backlash to the repression and guilt they felt as a Witness. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I don't think the Holy Spirit goes around zapping people into spiritual bliss these days.

    So, what I hope to hear is not what could be or what's probable. I want to know what facts back or refute the issue. At this point, it's not a critical issue for my sense of spirituality, although it would be nice to know.

    Etude.

  • 9thWonder
    9thWonder

    I'm no expert. In fact, I'm search for info to support or refute the doctrine. Here are some interesting sites on the subject: http://www.carm.org/jw/bibletrinity.htm http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm http://www.apostates.net/should_you_believe_in_the_trinity.htm The trinity doctrine, as explained to me once, is not "three gods IN one" it's three gods unified under one godhead...meaning that all three are one or in unision. The Father IS greater than the son and the holy spirit. The Father uses the son and the holy spirit and neither the son nor the holy spirit act independently of god. They are each gods in that each are a diety. One can always argue whether the holy spirit is a person or an "active force", but I think that's it in a nutshell. Check out the links and do further research into the origin of the doctrine.

  • zagor
    zagor


    Crykee, not trinity again lol.

    Anyway, you can believe what you like, WTBS is not the only one to reject it though. For me personally it is completely confusing concept. (Not that I find much hope in believing in god these days anyway)

    Anyho, here is a thread you might like to study: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/92969/1.ashx

  • Lynne Y
    Lynne Y

    Thanks, Etude..

    I did bit more research on trinity today.. and I can't seem to accept any of the 'theories' that are present..

    Trinity... um.. seems really awkward in a way that Jesus prayed to God when he was on earth, and yet he was praying to himself?

    My catholic friend told me that Jesus wanted to set an example for people so that they will pray to God or something, but was weird..

    Hopefully, someday.. I'll be able to find some answer to these questions.. and figure out what i'm going to do with religion..

    Anyway.. thank you and thank you 9th wonder and zagor!

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    "Religion is a snare and a racket"

    No exceptions....!

    u/d (of the you don't need any of it class)

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist
    First, I think that what I've read in the Bible does not support the idea of a trinity, at least as the Catholic Church and other Christian denominations define it:

    See, the problem with that kind of reasoning is that it is based upon sola scriptura.

    Where does the Bible tell us to take our doctrines from the Bible alone?

    1 Tim 3:15: "I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory."

    The trick is to follow Apostolic tradition, which rightfully interprets scripture for us.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    Here is a page that I have found useful in summarizing the Biblical arguments for thr Trinity:

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    I spent years fighting people at the doors about the trinity so this really interests me. What i could not believe when i broke away is the totally dishonest way that the WTS deals with the topic.

    The reality is that the bible is very confusing on the topic, the trinity may or may not be true. At John 20:28 Thomas said to jesus "my Lord and My God". However the Jews were monotheistic. So was Jesus the same as Jehovah, or were the Christians to be polythiestic and worship both Jehovah and Jesus? Within a few decades of Jesus death the antenicean fathers grappled with this question. The result was that by the 180A.D. the trinity was presented as the only way to reconcile the situation.

    It is interesting that until 1954 the Witnesses worshipped both Jehovah and Jesus, and so were polytheistic. The Watchtower Charter still says to worship Jesus. Now Witnesses must not worship Jesus, which makes it difficult to reconcile scriptures like John 20:28 and other ones that indicate we should worship and pray to Jesus. I have written an article about the Witness change in this teaching at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/Page426.htm

    The trinity is probably the best way to make sense of the bible, even though it is not clearly presented in it. It should be noted that this subject has been debated for 2000 years and yet most Christian religions still feel it is the best option. I have written a more extensive article on the trinity that i can email you if you like.

  • Lynne Y
    Lynne Y

    jwfacts! I'd love to read it.. my e-mail is [email protected] Thank you! Lina

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit