My first post - How do I stop JW Bible Study (nicely)?

by emcee 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • emcee
    emcee

    Hi to everyone on the forums. This is my first post, so I hope you’ll all bear with me.

    My dad passed away in Oct 2004 and a customer called me shortly afterwards. I'll call her “Ellen”. She is around my age and a repeat customer (the kind that all salespeople like!) Ellen wanted to place an order, usual chit-chat, and she enquired why my daughter wasn’t at playgroup for the last few weeks. Our kids were then attending the same playgroup, but usually my MIL brought her as I was often working. So Ellen and I were still acquaintances at that stage.

    I explained my dad had been seriously ill and passed away, but I got quite emotional as it was hard telling people in the early days. I said what was helping me through was the knowledge that dad was in heaven. I don’t remember the exact words but Ellen said something along the lines that according to the Bible, my dad could not be in heaven now although he was ‘at rest’. BTW, I was raised Roman Catholic and that is contrary to our beliefs. I asked if she meant that my dad’s soul was in purgatory / limbo while we prayed for his earthly sins. Ellen explained what JWs believe and offered me some reading matter. She left the “What happens to us when we die?” magazine with me soon afterwards. I read it and had no reason to disbelieve it, because it seemed to be a plausible commentary. I found it to be very unsettling that my beliefs had been “proven wrong” though. I wanted to investigate the Catholic doctrine further but didn’t know anyone who had studied it well enough. I also thought if I went to my local priest, he’d be angry that I was reading JW material. The next time I talked to Ellen, she asked me if I found the magazine interesting. I did find it “interesting” but in a disturbing way! She offered to come to my home to pick up her order and answer any questions I had about my reading. Now obviously this was going to save me some time, so I agreed.

    Ellen turned up with a woman from her congregation, whom she said was very knowledgeable about the subject. Basically everything they said made sense and whatever I questioned was “backed up” immediately from the Bible. I told them it was disturbing to have a long held belief turned on its head. They said that they’d felt the same way when they had first “learnt the truth” about what they used to believe.

    I’m sure you can guess the rest. Ellen offered to do a Bible Study with me if I wanted to learn more. I was searching for answers at that time and said yes.

    The Bible Study was from the “What does God require of us?” magazine and the first few lessons were with Ellen alone. To me it was a sociable “coffee & cake” morning. Ellen brought her son along for playdates with my daughter. Later Ellen asked if another friend Kathy could join us. I am very easy-going and had no problems with this. We also ended up alternating venues for the study – my house and then Ellen’s but recently, we’ve been at Kathy’s house as well. Kathy has also become quite a good customer BTW. On a personal level, we all get along well. The kids have loads of fun together and we usually run way overtime because we chit-chat about the usual stuff that friends do. Ellen invited me to a jewellery party and I met more of her friends (and some family – not JWs)

    In this time we have finished the “What does God require of us?” magazine and are now onto Chapter 2 of the “Knowledge” book. I haven’t always been able to do a study every week because of work commitments, appointments, visiting mum etc. At a certain point, I tried to set up fortnightly studies because it was tying up too much time, but Ellen would send me emails or ring me in between to see how I was doing that week (did I catch with work etc to fit it another study?) Being so easy-going, spineless, I took the path of least resistance and just fit it in!

    After a few invitations I went to a Sunday talk, but haven’t attended any since. I was also invited to attend the Memorial but couldn’t go. There is a JW “state convention” in August and Ellen would really like me to go along for 1 day at least.

    It has taken some time to develop serious doubts about the JW religion. (I also tried searching for JW sites for detailed information but initially found the official Watchtower site. I only discovered this forum last week…) Firstly, both my parents and in-laws lost touch with very good friends after joining the JWs (for no apparent reason). Early last year, the son & wife of my dad’s best friend suddenly began to visit my parents again after years of minimal contact. They learned of my dad’s health problems and “came back” into their lives. When I asked mum about this, she said that they had been asked to leave their congregation because of devoting too much time to their business.

    I talked to Ellen & Kathy (E&K) about this at the next Bible Study. They said that no-one would be asked to leave JWs for that reason; that situation would happen only where a serious sin had been committed and there was no repentance. But perhaps I misunderstood and my friends had left voluntarily? I would call my parents’ friends about this but I’m afraid if it somehow slips I’ve been looking into JW, my mum would be distraught and she has enough stress right now.

    I don’t think JWs are for me and I could never convert, but I am happy to continue Bible studies on occasion. I’m sure that E&K will try to persuade to me to ramp it up. Due to my limited Bible knowledge I can’t really argue Catholic doctrine vs JW, so I thought the best approach would be tell them of the problems I have with things like:

    - How the JWs seem to attract paedophiles because of the “2-person witness” rule. I watched the 29/05/05 (Aussie) program of ‘Sunday’ that was linked here in the forums and was gob smacked. If only I’d seen it when it was broadcast, I would have mentioned it then so my objections won’t seem so “researched” now.
    - JWs believe that they are Christians but other Christian religions are not? I can’t understand the reasoning on this one.
    - Only baptised JWs will survive Armageddon (this is what I’ve picked up from lurking here for a bit – correct me if I’m wrong?)
    - The whole disfellowshipped shunning thing is unchristian. It freaks me out that wife bashers and child abusers can be readily forgiven and people who communicate their doubts can be disfellowshipped. Go figure.
    - Abstaining from blood means not eating/drinking it, right? How can blood transfusions (especially one’s own blood) contradict the above?
    - The Bible doesn’t say “thou shalt not celebrate birthdays.” It only tells about the immoral practices of that time but I’m pretty sure I won’t be sacrificing small animals for my next birthday.
    - Likewise the Christmas celebration is not mentioned; it doesn’t mean that Jesus’ family on earth would have plain forgotten about his birthday when he was a child. In biblical days there were no telephones, therefore they are not mentioned in the Bible, does this mean that using telephone are forbidden? I think not.

    From the forums I get the impression that I need to be pretty strong with my objections in order to stop E&K’s conversion efforts.
    - I suppose my question is will the above concerns be enough to have E&K accept my decision?
    - The next one is have will I lose 2 friends and great customers in the process?

    This is why I’ve asked for nice and polite ways of going about it, guys!!!

    I apologise that this post has turned out to be longer than War & Peace. Many thanks in advance.

    emcee

  • Odrade
    Odrade


    Long, but interesting. Welcome to the board. I'm sorry you feel like you can't talk to your priest, or your mother's friends. If they did leave voluntarily, I'm sure they would be happy to speak to you, and I'm sure they would respect your confidentiality about being involved. That's one thing all of us know about...

    Your priest, though disappointed that you got involved with JWs, would likely also be glad to speak with you about things. Just keep in mind that, now since you have started really thinking about what you believe, it may open up even more questions for you.

    About this:

    - The next one is have will I lose 2 friends and great customers in the process?

    Almost certainly, yes, you will lose the friends and customers. You see, now you "know better," and if they even get a suspicion that you have gotten your information from people like us, (meaning people who were JWs and left) you will be avoided, even shunned. I'm sorry, that's just how it will likely be. They will decide that "Satan got ahold of Emcee," and they will be afraid that you will somehow taint their faith.

    Stick around if you like, there's a lot to see here. Some people have been very hurt, and "skinned and thrown about" by the WT, some left on principle after investigating doctrine, some just drifted out with relatively little trouble or pain, but nearly all of us have come to realize what we were involved in, and would never go back.

    O

  • alfie
    alfie

    Hi emcee,

    Just tell them you enjoy chatting with them, but you have no intention in joining the Watch Tower. If they decide your company is no longer acceptable, drop them and get on with your life. Better to lose a couple of customers now,(you can always find other clients), than to lose friends and family and probably your self respect, all of which can be difficult, even impossible to recover.

    CIAO4NIAO!!!

    alfie

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    I didn't stop it when I should have...

    20 years later I had to do a VERY PAINFUL exit from a cult...that I should have never joined in the first place...

    I was too nice to say no...

    NEVER AGAIN!

    u/d (of the if just one person learns from my mistake...class)

  • potleg
    potleg

    You must be firm, it's no use trying to reason with them about their beliefs right now...they'll tie you in knots..You could say that you've thought things through carefully and you're just not interested, period. Of course they'll ask you why...DO NOT get into a debate! You can be friendly and firm at the same time. Do not leave the door open for future discussion or they WILL be back.

    Lot's of people on this board have been sucked in while they are feeling vulnerable but their pain was nothing compared to the trauma of families being split apart and the hard fight to break away. These witness people maybe very nice but remember the teachings they follow and uphold are not.

    Come back here often we want to help you.

  • blondie
    blondie

    If continuing your study of Watchtower publications is dependent on their continuing "friendship," they weren't your friends in the first place.

    Just be firm, say you no longer wish to study but don't wish to end your friendship or lose them as customers. Don't offer a reason, such as, you are busy, you don't agree with _________ (fill in the blank).

    Their reaction will let you know how much a friend they are.

    Love, Blondie

  • Purza
    Purza

    Welcome. I am sorry for the loss of your father.

    I don't think there is a way for you to do it "nicely". They will take offense, no matter how nice you are, and you will lose two "friends" and customers. But as the others said, they weren't really your friends in the first place. Sad.

    Purza

  • sf
    sf

    Welcome.

    You are very smart in the fact that you used your computer to "make sure of all things" and "stumbled" onto this site. Many of us hope there will be more like you in that they make an effort to ask questions and do research on one of the most destruction and deceptive book publishing organizations, masking as The True Religion, in the history of the world.

    {{ applause is in order here }}

    Bible Study was from the “What does God require of us?” magazine

    Now tell me, what is wrong with this statement?

    LOL!!

    emcee,

    Please stick around here and read, read, read. Especially read www.freeminds.org in order to fully educate yourself.

    Sincerely, sKally

  • sf
    sf

    I'd like also to refer you to a thread [ click the blue hyperlink below ] I submitted recently that is dynamic to this topic:

    Turning the shunning policy around onto Mother...

    I think it is vital to truly understand the affects that the shunning [ punishment ] policy if you are in fact going to continue studying at all. A policy that you too will HAVE TO adhere to if you become one of them, in any capacity.

    sKally

  • Joker10
    Joker10

    You are certainly not thie first person who had decided to stop studying with JWs. There many tens of millions who have and only a small fraction progress to baptism.

    About pedophiles. How many pedophiles know that JWs have a '"2 person witness rule"? How can they be attracted tothe JW lifestyle?-

    JWs believe that they are Christians but other Christian religions are not? I can’t understand the reasoning on this one.

    They believe they are the true Christians, but know what the word 'christian' means in the dictionary.

    Only baptised JWs will survive Armageddon (this is what I’ve picked up from lurking here for a bit – correct me if I’m wrong?)
    Only Jehovah's worshippers will make it into the New World.

    The whole disfellowshipped shunning thing is unchristian. It freaks me out that wife bashers and child abusers can be readily forgiven and people who communicate their doubts can be disfellowshipped. Go figure.

    - Open you Bible again. Din't the founder of Chrstianity himself let his followers know to not associate with people who left the congregation?

    ikewise the Christmas celebration is not mentioned; it doesn’t mean that Jesus’ family on earth would have plain forgotten about his birthday when he was a child. In biblical days there were no telephones, therefore they are not mentioned in the Bible, does this mean that using telephone are forbidden? I think not.

    No other holiday is probably more worldy that this one.

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