On a whim, stopped by the library for books on Jerusalems destruction

by ithinkisee 31 Replies latest jw friends

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  ithinkisee

  So I was driving by the library on my way home today and remembered I do have a library card and decided to go in and do my own research on 607 BCE. I figured I might find a book or two in our little old library.

  I did a search on the library's computers for "jerusalem history" and got a handful of books ... I wrote down the Dewey Decimal number (or whatever it is) of one of them (they are all in the same general section) and headed to the reference wing of the library.

  First book I picked up I looked in the reference section in the back ... found Jerusalem's destruction on page 371. Turned to 371 ... bam! "...586 BCE Jerusalem was destroyed"

  I checked a couple other books and didn't find anything ... they were books on modern Israel. Then I hit the mother load ...

  By the time I was finished I had 13 books clearly stating Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BCE. Not only that, but many of these books had clear writings explaining the chain of events up to 586 BCE. Some showed that Nebuchadnezzar wasn't even king in 607 and wasn't even near Jerusalem in 607.

  So I took the armload of books up to the photocopier and photocopied two or three pages from each book ... including the title page inside the cover for reference. Some of the title pages have the name of our local library stamped in the inset ... so when I show my wife she can see I got the references myself ... yay!

  I gotta tell you, that made my day ... just thought I would share ...

  -ithinkisee
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  the_classicist

  I find trips to the library inspiring too to find things like that out. And it usually confirms the opposite of those people who with me disagree.
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  Cat-er-daynightfever

  I was just curious. Did you find the dates for the beginning of Jewish exile? I would like to know when the exile began and when it ended because exile might have started before 586 BCE as far as I know. If I can honestly see that there is no discrepancy in the 70 years prophesied, my doubts about the Bible's fulfillment of the 70 years in exile will be gone. I get scared that maybe the Bible isn't true when I can't go to Jewish websites and hear exactly when the Jews were released from exile.

  I understand that what is recorded by the Babylonians themselves as to the date of destruction is accurate. The call for the Jews to go back and rebuild was not given until 4-- BCE. Is it possible that although the Babylonians were destoyed in 539BCE that the Jewish exile continued until the Medes and Persians let them go?

  What were the name of some of those books that you found? Maybe I can find them at the library, too.

  I've been rather lost in my beliefs since I found out that JWs lied about many things. I just want to back up the Bible's teaching whatever it may be as to when the exile began and when it ended. Since 607 BCE is wrong, what really is right?

  Cat
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  foreword

  The watchtower is aware that most historians date the event to 586, it's just that they claim to be right and it's 607.
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  IP_SEC

  The watchtower is aware that most historians date the event to 586, it's just that they claim to be right and it's 607

  Thats right, what is funny though is that they never come out and say: "most scholars (not scholar) believe jerusalem was distroyed between 587 and 586 (i know i know Im just phrasing it like they might). God's irrefutable word the Bible however, confirms that Jerusalem fell in 607 BCE"

  Now they dont say that. Why? Ahh but the faithful flock might start thinking. And to quote our caveman bretheren: "Think bad"

  Thinking leads to checking, and checking leads an honest person (not scholar) to the right date...
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  EvilForce

  Wow...13. I stopped at 12. But of course had the same result as you. As I argued with "Scholar" on the 33 page thread.....
  Scholar you say the WTBS is correct and everyone else is wrong on this. You tell me I can trust the WTBS on secular matters like this. I'm supposed to trust this same outfit that once told us that aluminium cookware was hazzardous to our health and would kill us. That vaccinations were a "pus and hadn't saved a single life". That space travel was mere fantasy and impossible. That the human body "fed" on blood and all sorts of medical nonsense. This list can go on and on. The WTBS track record on secular matters is awful. So I'm now supposed to trust them over 100's of other experts that disagree with them? I think not!
  
  The WTBS is the only major group that needs 607 to be "fact". This is the WTBS core tenant that must hold together. Other religions do not live or die by subscribing to 587 or 607. Only the Dub's HAVE to use 607, otherwise their reason for being is nullified. It's in their vested interest to keep up this charade.
  
  Since the Dub's are the ONLY true religion you would like to think that their core tenant would be historically accurate and easy to verify. Why trust an organization that can't clearly substaniate history? Jesus us told us to examine all things. I've examined this and know 607 is NOT right.
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  ithinkisee

  I know for most of you this isn't shocking. But for me it was more a wake-up call as to what a brain dead JW I was. I can't believe how f---ing simple and obvious it is that 607 BCE is a date they basically pulled out of their arse. All I can blame it on is me being a pompous and cocky self-assured ass as a younger man.

  All I can say to you that are not registered Jehovahs-Witness.com readers that aren't registered on this site and only looking ... DO YOUR RESEARCH! We are lucky to be able to have so much research from people before us that had the balls to question the organization - without the luxury of messageboards and websites that give us easy access to documents.

  There are a lot of us on this site that sound really bitter and pissed from time to time - but it is just that blatant deception from the Society like 607 BCE just makes me mad. Sometimes I understand how Jesus wigged out and kicked ass on the moneychangers in the temple. The blatant hypocrisy on the part of the WTBS just makes me want to kick ass myself.

  The circular reasoning on the part of the society is incredulous:

  Society: "Believe us because we are the channel chosen by God to deliver lifesaving messages to humankind. Listen and obey us and your life will be spared."
  Lowly Congregation Publisher: "But how do we know that you have that kind of authority? That's a pretty powerful claim."
  Society: " Because bible prophecy foretold it. The 70 years prophecy that hinges on 607 BCE, which points to 1914 as Christ's invisible return."
  Lowly Congregation Publisher: "Well I just found 13 respected history books at the library that says Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587. So that pretty much sinks that theory."
  Society: "Well, yeah. We know some historians say that, and don't try to hide that fact. But wait on Jehovah. Don't be presumptuous and run ahead of the organization, thinking you know more than the Governing Body. Stay close to the Faithful Slave because we are the chosen channel."
  Lowly Congregation Publisher: "Wait a second. Didn't I just prove that your claim to authority is bogus?"
  Society: "Wait on Jehovah. Don't be presumptuous and run ahead of the organization, thinking you know more than the Governing Body. Stay close to the Faithful Slave because we are the chosen channel."
  Lowly Congregation Publisher: "WTF?!?!"

  -ithinkisee
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  MidwichCuckoo

  Although the WTBTS need 607 to be a 'solid' date, don't they support 586 in their OWN literature? (Alleymom's KISS approach).
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  ithinkisee

  Although the WTBTS need 607 to be a 'solid' date, don't they support 586 in their OWN literature? (Alleymom's KISS approach).

  Unwittingly they do. Sort of. They agree on the LENGTHS of the kingships for each, but they give Nebuchadnezzar different years of the beginning and end of his rule so that the 18th year of rule for Nebuchadnezzar is around 607.

  The Society is no exception to the rule that once you tell one lie you have to start telling more to cover up the inconsistencies. The inconsistencies include:

  • A twenty year gap that the Society says maybe there was another king in there somewhere. (anyone have a reference where they suggest this?)
    Problem: Thousands of documents, royal inscriptions, manuscripts, astronomical records, and records of the Egyptians make no provision for a mythical 20 years.
  • Zechariah clearly points to the fact the the 70 years of desolation were still in effect during King Darius. Zechariah 1:1 gives a precise date. "In the eighth month in the second year of Da·ri´us the word of Jehovah occurred to Zech·a·ri´ah ". Then Zech 1:12 says that the 70 years were still in effect.
    The Society and other sources put this at 519/520 BCE. SUbtract 70 years from 519 and you get 589 BCE, which was the YEAR that history says NEbuchadnezzar came up against Jerusalem and lay seige.

  I am just figuring out the minor details of all this myself so I might be wrong in some of the claims made above ... so feel free to correct me.

  (except Scholar ... stay away )

  -ithinkisee
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  Honesty

  It's one helluva rush to go to the libraries and museums and really see for yourself how deceitful and cunning the WTBTS really is. Of course, they inherit those qualities from their master.