(jumping in way too later here...)
I recall the episode of Penn&Teller's Showcase series "BullSH**!" where they covered the bible.
The parallel Penn kept coming back to, to make his point (said sarcastically):
Elvis didn't do no drugs!!!
The point is: some people believe Elvis didn't do drugs, even though there was/is ample evidence to the contrary. If such an (incorrect!) opinion could be propagated so soon after Elvis's death, in this "age of information", how accurate can we assume are the stories written decades after Jesus's (alleged) time on earth? If Elvis could be elevated to near god-like status in the minds of his fans, how much more so could someone who actually CLAIMED god-like status?
Elvis didn't do no drugs!!!
~Quotes, of the "Elvis didn't do no drugs" class
A Christian question, but applies to all thinking Christian too!
by free2beme 100 Replies latest jw friends
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Quotes
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free2beme
Thank you, .... thank you very much
(Elvis has left the building!)
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NeonMadman
an essay by a Christian to disprove my thought and make it appear that Christianity is correct is not up my ally. What I want to know it what you think, or are you just a puppet of another man's thoughts and have them do the speaking for you?
I thought that the article made a number of good points, also many in response to the articles that Sirona posted. I suppose I could have taken a couple of hours to, in effect, re-write the article in the form of a post. But, frankly, that seems like a bit much to ask of me if you yourself are unwilling even to take the time to read the article.
And, yes, it seems very clear to me from your comments on this thread that you are only interested in promoting what you already believe and are not at all interested in considering seriously any viewpoint that disagrees with you. You may take the fact that I have pointed that out repeatedly as anger on my part, but I'm really not angry; perhaps just a bit frustrated at seeing the JW mentality manifest itself in another belief system.
Some answered that, they don't. Okay! I see you don't share my point of view and have not read some of the books I read. Maybe in time you will and you will see why I brought the subject up.
Again, I must point out that these are once again the remarks of a person who is convinced that he has found The Truth, and that no further inquiry is necessary. All that remains is for others to recognize the truth of your position and come over to it; there is nothing worth considering in any viewpoint that differs from your own. Most of us learned not to see things that way the first time around. We may not have "read some of the books you read" but you have also not read responses to them written from our point of view. Additionally, I am willing to read books that disagree with my viewpoint as time allows (as an example, though I am a Christian and do not necessarily agree with all of his viewpoints, I am currently in the middle of reading Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World, and finding much of value in it). You, on the other hand are not willing even to consider material that disagrees with what you already believe. So who really has the blinders on?
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tetrapod.sapien
classicist,
yes, I'm 18.
wow, well done! when i was 18, i had just been appointed a M.Servant and Pioneer. (feeling sick now due to so much wasted time). now i'm 28 and just starting university. oh well, at least i'm out. ...life...
Is belief in God about nothing more than filling a psychological void? Did humans develop this need for God through evolution? etc. etc.
i think anthropology would suggest so. but also, when i look at nature with as few assumtions and preconceptions as i can muster, it really seems to me that the answers are yes, and yes, respectively. they are, afterall, the simplest answers to questions that you rightly say are next to unanswerable.
LT,
Perhaps God has given up on the West, somewhat, given that we've had several hundred years of opportunity.
naturally, i have a hard time with this. apart from the assumtion that he exists, i also am perplexed as to why he would behave in such a way. is it becuase he lost his patience, or is offended with the west? but that would make him seem so small, to me. as a stupid homo sapien, i can think of dozens of ways that he could have done things so much better regarding letting the world know about him, if he is indeed omnimax. if he isn't omnimax, why would he deserve to be worshiped, or even revered? -
hmike
OK free2beme, your last long post gives me some insight to where you're coming from. I've seen your perspective written in this forum many times in the short time I've been here--I don't know why yours stirred up so much more reaction.
To answer your original question, I have read Greek and Roman mythology, along with some from other cultures. I personally think there is enough distinction to make the Bible credible, and I certainly don't agree that Biblical accounts necessarily were based on existent myths when it was written. Perhaps someday this topic will come up again and we can cover it point-by-point. In the meantime, I wish you well on your post-JW journey.
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hmike
Sorry, I misunderstood about who was 18--I thought LittleToe.
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tetrapod.sapien
hey free2beme,
thought i would just dip in on this conversation you have been having with neon and hmike.
Do not believe, and punishment (hell/Armagedon) is in your future.
this is how i see organized religion as well. of course, within those organizations, there are often folks who really do not presume they are going to heaven, and others are going to hell. i would say these are good folks for honestly not presuming that. for the ones that do presume that, then a prompt flipping of the bird in their general direction is suitable.
i wonder this about my wife who belongs to a psuedo-christian/judaistic sect called the jehovah's witnesses. how can she really love me and think that i am an infidel/apostate? she would never come out and say it, but if i cornered her, that is probably how she would define me. how can she love me, and think i will soon be torn asunder by gods wrath? so i see what you are saying. that sort of thinking is horrible, especially to us atheists and non-theists who think we are all headed for the same eventuality anyways.
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free2beme
Neon
Think of my thoughts on this, this way, as yours sounds like I am in a religion.
"I am someone who ask a lot of questions, finds answers that make sense, and come to a board like this to bring thoughts up to get feedback from people from another perspective"
My truth is ever growing, and that is how it should be for all. I do not expect anyone to answer me with, "I want to join you", as I have nothing to join. I just wanted to know if Christian people saw that their religion has a lot in common with Greek/Roman myth. I don't expect a board like this to all come back with "yes!" I expect viewpoints, as before though, not some essay from someone who does not attend. If he did, maybe we could discuss his/her research and not third party the idea. Man and myth go hand and hand. There are some solid views I do have on Christian though, believers = reward from god, non-believers = punishment from God. You must be willing to face this or were all going to Hades (Greek god) ... oh wait, I mean hell. Sorry got my Greek myth and Christian myth mixed again.
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NeonMadman
Think of my thoughts on this, this way, as yours sounds like I am in a religion.
Well, you are, at least in a sense. You may not be in an organized religion, but you clearly have a set of beliefs that you think are the truth. And your beliefs are based on faith/assumptions as much as any other set of religious beliefs. That doesn't disturb me as much as the JW mentality that I detect remaining in you. You come here expecting us to take your beliefs at face value, maybe even reading some of the books you recommend, but your own mind is closed to any works that might refute what you already believe. How is this really any different than the JW who goes to your door expecting you to read the Watchtower he leaves with you, but is unwilling to look at any literature you might offer him? It's not reasonable for you to post here expecting us to take your views seriously while you dismiss ours with a wave of the hand.
I just wanted to know if Christian people saw that their religion has a lot in common with Greek/Roman myth.
Clearly there are similarities between Christian teaching and myths of various cultures. So what? Similarity does not necessarily indicate either a common origin or imitation. A Christian might even argue that the similarities found in pagan religions are merely Satan's counterfeit of the real thing. My original comments in this thread, if you'll recall, were directed against your argument that Jesus never existed, not against alleged similarities between Christian and pagan stories.
There are some solid views I do have on Christian though, believers = reward from god, non-believers = punishment from God.
That is not a solid view; it's a prejudicial view. Not all Christians believe the same things. There are even Christians who are universalists and believe that everyone will ultimately be saved. For you to pigeon-hole all Christians based on one doctrine that you find unacceptable is unreasonable. In fact, it is precisely that thinking that led to the creation of Jehovah's Witnesses, since it was Charles Taze Russell's rejection of the doctrine of hell that was one of the major factors that led to the founding of that movement. -
free2beme
Clearly there are similarities between Christian teaching and myths of various cultures. So what?
To start, I respect the Witness resolve in life now and do not see standing up for what you believe in as negative. We all should, right or wrong. It's your belief system and if you do not belief in it enough to push your thoughts, then your weak and I am not weak.
Second, so what? How can you not be concerned from a belief and faith standpoint that your might be in a religion that is nothing more then another myth based religion? Sorry if that is insulting, but that is the possible out come of knowing that the two religions are coming from the same origin. Labeling it with Satan, now that is Witness like. I have to disagree with you though on saying that my view on Christianity is to hard line with the idea of reward and punishment. Everytime I meet someone who says that and I let them discuss further and build up a trust with them, it ends up that I find out that they do indeed feel the way I mentioned. They just did not want to come across to hard line or harsh in the begining and scare me away. So, sorry if people of your faith have represented your loving viewpoint so poorly. Well, the devil might be doing that too.