Source of Flood Waters

by VM44 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    VM44 said:

    : I do not have access right now to the Watchtower CD Library, could someone check and tell me what the Watchotwer now says is the source for the Great Flood waters?

    I'm certain that they still teach the same thing they've been teaching since the 1960s. The 1989 book The Bible: God's Word or Mans? teaches the canopy idea, and this is still considered "present truth" by the Society. At least, nothing has been printed since then abandoning, or even suggesting a backing away from, the canopy notion. Of course, having been thoroughly trashed in the 1990s on science, they haven't printed much of anything on the old chestnuts like Noah's Flood.

    : Do they still believe the theory of Isaac Vail that the waters came from above and that there was a water canopy in orbit about the earth?

    More or less, but not in anything near the form Vail envisioned and the Society promoted up through the 1950s. They printed nothing at all on the canopy idea for about ten years, and then about 1965 started printing nonsense largely taken from Morris and Whitcomb's 1961 book The Genesis Flood.

    : or does the Watchtower now say that the canopy was a vapor layer, not in orbit, but a simply above the atmosphere?

    Yes, but they're very vague about it. This, of course, prevents them from being nailed down on details.

    : Also, if either of these beliefs are taught by the Watchtower, then why have they not done a rigorous thermo-hydrodynamic analysis of what these models imply?

    You're not serious! That's like asking why they don't publish anything on rocket science -- no one in Bethel is competent enough to understand the issues, much less teach about them.

    However, one young-earth creationist published his Ph.D. thesis in book form: The Waters Above - Earth's Pre-Flood Vapor Canopy (Joseph C. Dillow, Moody Press, 1981). Dillow did a careful physical analysis of the idea that a layer of pure water vapor could overlie the atmosphere in the form of a vapor canopy. The first thing he figured out was that the amount of water in such a canopy could not exceed the equivalent of about ten meters of water, or life processes could not go on as we know them. Then he found out that, even if such a layer could be miraculously created, it wouldn't be stable, since separated gases tend to mix at the slightest bit of turbulence at the boundary. He ended his book on a sad note that it would take a lot more effort to justify that a canopy could exist. So far as I know, no subsequent YECs have taken up the challenge.

    In the late 1980s I had a discussion with a Circuit Overseer about the impossibility of a shell-like vapor canopy being in orbit. They guy absolutely could not understand why a shell of vapor could not be in orbit. I tried to explain that if the shell were rotating as a relatively rigid mass, it could only have the proper orbital velocity at its equator, and everywhere else it would tend to sink down. He couldn't understand why the orbital velocity at the poles was necessarily zero. This is the sort of dummy that inhabits Bethel, so it's no wonder they don't publish anything solid anymore. The last of the old timers who used to spearhead the nonsense is gone -- Harry Peloyan recently died, and Colin Quackenbush has severe Alzheimer's.

    AlanF

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    A few years ago my relatives were around and showed the family a video showing how the flood happend. It was done by some professor. Quite entertaining from me which lead us into a BIG argument.

    Does anyone know about this video.

    steve

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    steve,

    not aware of that video, but did the society not publish a video in the late 90's about the flood and noah? or is that the one? it was a funky cartoon of some type if i remember proper.

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    The one I saw not only 'proved' the water canopy but showed how the fissures under the oceans were made from waters sprouting forth.

    steve

  • observador
    observador

    "You're not serious! That's like asking why they don't publish anything on rocket science -- no one in Bethel is competent enough to understand the issues, much less teach about them."

    Precisely! The Society cannot even answer basic questions posed by a biology student, much less take up such an enormous challenge.

    See here for more on this: http://www.aetheronline.com/mario/Heretic/Jehovah's Witnesses.htm

    (gotta copy and paste)

    Observador.

  • potleg
    potleg

    ya just gotta have faith, wait on jehovah, don't worry be happy. Translation: Don't ask questions, look like a sap, go out more in the ministry.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Steve, you're probably talking about the whacky ideas of one Walter Brown. Do a search on his name, something like "walter brown flood" and you'll find what you're looking for.

    AlanF

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    Born JW 1957 3rd generation to the 'intellectual' Haszard clan.

    So i have heard every argument,including one i don't see above about the water being contained as a rarefied gas in the superheated ionosphere?

    Everything about dub science is 'quantum quackery' .Incidentally in 1985 7 years pre-exit i picked up a Wycliffe Bible commentary and was shocked at the similarity in wording to paragraphs from the Watchtower.

    I showed this to the local elders (pleased as punch that a 'worldly' work backed up the WT) and they gave me hell for reading it.

    Later on when i read COC Ray Franz disclosed that the WT authors are the plagiarizers of the world,they even steal from teenybopper seventeen magazine.

    Back to the flood if it didn't happen (since JC and the NT writers testified to it's authenticity) then Judo-Christianity must be false.

    We are still left with a whole lotta water that came from somewhere and if there is an Almighty he can do anything he darn pleases and probably do it in multi-dimensional time and space.


    "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,but not their own facts".D.M.

  • Sith
    Sith

    Every aspect of the story of Noah's Flood is ludicrous, but this thread brought one point to mind.

    I remember from back in my days as a DUmB that one the the WT's arguments about the flood being plausible was this: Before the flood, the Earth was much flatter. It was actually the flood itself that caused the gigantic mountain ranges, huge peaks and deep valleys that exist today. This helps to explain what happened to the flood waters...they didn't go away so much as they receded to lower elevations as the continents rose up from beneath then.

    Wouldn't this buckling of the Earth cause huge Tsunamis and gigantic tidal waves. Wouldn't these tidal waves encircle the earth, crashing into each other, since there were no land masses to stop them or break them up? How could a big wooden box, built by primitive tools and with primitive materials, withstand those tremendous forces?

  • DannyBloem
    DannyBloem
    Wouldn't this buckling of the Earth cause huge Tsunamis and gigantic tidal waves. Wouldn't these tidal waves encircle the earth, crashing into each other, since there were no land masses to stop them or break them up? How could a big wooden box, built by primitive tools and with primitive materials, withstand those tremendous forces?

    It would have, at an unbelivable magnitude.

    By the way, the location and layers in mountains suggest very strongly that the montains are created by continental drifts.

    But with gods protected and interference in every part everyhing is possible right

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