The Morman's and Joseph Smiths hat!!! OMG!

by free2beme 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  free2beme

  Okay, it has been years since I cared about what a Mormon does or says. So to even question their beliefs and wonder what they mean, has been no interest to me. Yet when I am watching something that should not even be about religion and they mention something that makes me wonder, I have to ask. So here is how I come to be talking about Mormons in this post and I know it is odd. I was sitting watching television the other day and a South Park episode comes on and it is about a Mormon family moving to town and acting all loving and such. In so doing they are telling the story about Joseph Smith and how he came about to find the book of Mormons and to by surprise they got their fact pretty close from online research and I wanted to do this in kind of a, "did you know?" format as it did not know of remember this all.

  Did you know that Joseph Smith, whom I will henceforth refer to as JS, said that American Indians were all white and were cursed to become red skin? Hello, ever study the Mayan or Aztecs? Not exactly the correct info there.

  Did you know that JS claimed he had gold tablets with the book of Mormons on it and when he red it he had two seer stones, and in order to translate it to another man he placed the stones in a hate and shoved his head in and read the words? I nearly died laughing at that part. I am going to see if my Yankees cap will enhance the reading of the newspaper into some holy recording.

  Did you know that when that man came home to his wife with the information JS read from the hate, his wife put the papers away and told her husband to return to JS and see if he could say the same things. Because after all if it was a holy writing it would, right? When JS was challenged to this he said God told him no and so he did not do this and said he would now translate a new book? Shouldn't this have been a warning sign, come on, is that really a faith builder? Made me think of Monty Python.

  Did you know, that JS said the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, MO (that's right, the USA), even though all science has proven that life started in the African area and most religions teach this as well? Makes me wonder about the Mormons facts in teaching normal education at BYU.

  Wow! Just floored me when I heard it on South Park and I went to a Mormon at work and had to ask. Sure enough, it's all true. All hail Stan, Kyle and Kenny ... Screw Cartman! I just wish someone would have shown Mormons leading an angry mob to Southern Utah to kill Kenny. I know they are in Colorado, but that is a reference to something else the Mormons did. They do have happy families though.
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  IronGland

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/91699/1.ashx
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  EvilForce

  Well to be honest it scares me that you didn't know this stuff earlier. But the Southpark show you are talking about is FUNNY! LOL
  I wish they would make a Jo Ho version of that and it would be just as insane as the Mormon one to be sure.
  Since leaving the Dubs I have done more research on all the other religions out there than I ever did as a Dub. When my mom wants to demean...I mean discuss Buddhism she has her little brown book from the Dub's about what Buddhists belief and how silly it is. When I ask her questions about what SHE believes she still pages thru that little brown book. UGH!!!
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  free2beme

  I did not follow the LDS religion much, not a lot where I lived as a Witness that were willing to talk to us and when we did, the last thing we wanted to do was make fun of their weird religion. People in glass houses, as the saying goes ...
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  Qcmbr

  Ok - clearing up after you lds mate!!!!
  
  1/At no stage did JS say that all American Indians were white. In fact the Book Of Mormon clearly indicates that the inhabitants of the Americas were asiatic and that two additional influxes of people are recorded - each group was tiny and so in no way was there any major impact on the local gene pool however they did grow to great influence under the Aztec and Mayan model of central kingship and servant cities.
  
  2/A urim and thummim were used to translate the Book of Mormon because that's what constitutes the ability to be a seer. They were after the model of the U/T of Moses but were not the same. How else was he supposed to translate the record??
  
  3/The Garden of Eden in JC isn't such a stretch if you also believe that the continents where all in one place and broke up after the flood.
  
  4/The seerstone and the hat - there are so many crazy stories flying around about this and there is no clear evidence that he ever used one - just anecdotal stories - you know prophet claims visions/ miracles / discovery of ancient record - it becomes open season for the gossips. Even if he did - a hat seems a sensible place to put something that needs to be in the dark to be seen - I guess he could have hidden under the bedcovers or a put a blanket over his head - either way you get a funny story.
  
  The problem with some christian attitudes is that they are willing to read the OT with Ark of Covenant / Temple rituals / Urim and Thummim / Fire from Heaven / Flood / Creation / Prophets etc... but are only actually willing to confess a Jesus who healed and preached sermons and died / rose again. A modern day prophet with the experiences of the OT and the testimony of the NT is treated as a source of ridicule. This is the time when aethiests and agnostics have a better arguement because at least they reject / doubt the whole kit and kaboodle rather than being selective in what fits comfortably about the god we've made in our image. Modern day christianity doesn't really like Moses they much prefer Paul.
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  jeanniebeanz

  I have only one thing against Mormons; their baking. There are a couple very nice ladies who come to our home each month and visit. I really like them and in spite of my husbands standoffishness, he likes them too. Delightful conversation and always seem so happy.

  Only one drawback; they bring us goodies each month "for the child". Well, there is seldom much left by the time he is home from school. One time, they brought home made banana nut bread. We now call it the "evil Mormon bread" because in spite of the fact that we are both dieting, the bread was gone in five minutes flat! We were only going to take a 'taste' I swear! Evil, Evil I tell you!

  Last time it was some kind of sugar cookies. Oh, save me!

  Jeannie
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  Qcmbr

  Jeannie - they sound bonkers..! Why do they visit you and bake for you? Are they missionaries? Is this a new 'bake and baptise' program running:) Seriously though are they LDS 'cos thats pretty freaky behaviour to turn up and start baking things for you.
  
  I'd understand it if they are missionaries - in that case the baking will stop as those particular missionaries move on.
  I wouldn't understand it if they are regular members becasue except in rare circumstances the members don't go door to door (unless they are ward missionaries but even that's rare - they are a support to the regular missionaries normally.)
  
  Anyhow enjoy the free food.
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  Pole

  q,
  
  

  The problem with some christian attitudes is that they are willing to read the OT with Ark of Covenant / Temple rituals / Urim and Thummim / Fire from Heaven / Flood / Creation / Prophets etc... but are only actually willing to confess a Jesus who healed and preached sermons and died / rose again. A modern day prophet with the experiences of the OT and the testimony of the NT is treated as a source of ridicule. This is the time when aethiests and agnostics have a better arguement because at least they reject / doubt the whole kit and kaboodle rather than being selective in what fits comfortably about the god we've made in our image. Modern day christianity doesn't really like Moses they much prefer Paul.

  
  
  I have to partly agree here in that there are just as many reasons to believe in JS's tophat miracles as there are arguments for Noah saving all animals using his Ark.
  
  You are also right in saying that this only applies to some christians as most take a much more relaxed attitude to the factual value of some of the stuff the Bible contains.
  
  I guess the reason Mormon beliefs across as so ridiculous is because just like dubs they use 'naive realism' to prove utterly crackpot stories. They spend years making up pseudo-scientific justifications and giving the detailed "measurements" for ideas that some ancient story-teller pulled out of his a&*. The "all continents used to be one" argument for locating the garden of Eden in the US is not very different in this respect. This is exactly what we get in all sorts of myths recorded in the history of mankind. Make up a story and then try to match it with reality.
  
  One thing that helped me get away from the smokescreen of religious belief (not as a philosophical stance, but as a way to explain the world) was understanding some basic notions in anthropology. There are so many mutually exclusive myths and archetypes in different cultures that, when trying to understand them, one invariably arrives at the conclusion that the only glue that sticks them all together is human psychology. Think of how the Greeks named the constellations and how they thought up stories explaining the origin of the Milky Way (Hera's breast milk, etc.). They were just as factual and scientific by the ancient standards as Smith's tophat was for some simple folks in the 19th century America.
  
  Why do we feel compelled to accept silly premises at all. With all the trouble and mental gymnastics that inevitably follows... Or is it all part of the game?
  
  Cheers,
  
  Pole
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  jeanniebeanz

  LOL, yes. They are the Ward Missionaries for the Newark group. Nice ladies, we usually end up talking for hours... :)
• 

  doogie

  3/The Garden of Eden in JC isn't such a stretch if you also believe that the continents where all in one place and broke up after the flood.

  i remember when i was little and learned about Pangea in school, i came home all excited and asked my dad if that was how the native americans got to north america (thinking maybe they rode NA like a raft). he laughed and told me about the bering strait. he told me that the continents began to split 100s of millions of years ago (between 200 and 300 million)...waaaaaay before homo sapiens.

  for a diehard JW, he did have a decent grasp of at least some science.

  (oops...this didn't have anything to do with mormons. sorry)