Is age an excuse to hold back?

by stopthepain 21 Replies latest jw friends

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  Fatfreek

  Well put, Gary.
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  RichieRich

  Gary- I might have to take you up on that too...

  GET YOUR FAT ASS OFF THE COUCH!!! QUIT WATCHING LIFETIME MOVIES!!! ILL STUDY MY WATCHTOWER WHEN IM GOOD AND GODDAMN READY TO!!!

  Man, that feels good!
• 

  Netty

  I just had this exact talk with my father age 61. I referenced alot of the stuff you refer to, how we missed out on normal growth, how we had to do things based on fear, how my parents put the cult before us growing up, and now they continue to put it before their grandchildren. My df'd sis and I had a four hour talk with my elder dad, who has heart problems, high blood pressure the most severe case of asthma, and diabetes. So I know exactly what you mean, it is a hard thing to do, because you are worried about their health and how the stress of the conversation may cause a physical reaction (which I think it may have, my sis noticed my dads lip tighten and his breathing get stressed, I thought it was from him being upset, but she thought it was his asthma acting up).

  Anyhow, after all that, I would still do this conversation again, and I dont think you should feel bad for having this talk with your mother when you feel you need to regardless of her age (which 50, shish, that aint old at all). It is a very important part of our healing process, to be able to confront our parents with the reality of what this cult has done to us.
• 

  garybuss

  RichieRich, You wrote:
  
  "Gary- I might have to take you up on that too..."
  
  Any time Rich.
  
  As Witnesses we were trained to be assertive . . . confrontational. With me it became natural. That's fine if I'm a cop, but in most social settings that aggressive posture doesn't work. Friendly relationships are based on trust . . . on feeling safe. If you go right after the throat of my sacred cow, trust is gone, feeling safe is gone, and wouldn't ya know, friendly is gone too.
  
  The Witness's god is the organization and it's a fragile god concept since there isn't one piece of rational confirming evidence to support the Witness's faith in the Society. Nothing can rock that boat or it starts to take on water, so there's a LOT of protection in place. When we challenge the Society, even by implication, we rock the boat and set off the panic alarms and they retaliate. We see their retaliation as an unprovoked attack on us and the wall goes up on both sides.
  
  I advocate for keeping rapport if possible. Many of us here have lost rapport by any behavior that does not pay homage to the Society. We've found our relationships with the Witness people extremely fragile. Many Witness people will never leave. I have accepted that.
  
  If a Witness has concerns today, she doesn't have to look very hard to find facts and figures. There are great people like Randy Watters, that the Witnesses can contact if they want to question. I'm not religious and I don't think I have any duty to expose Witnesses to information that might cause them to "doubt". My gosh, the Society is beating the crap out of em. I think they got enough to question right under their noses.
  
  If they see the current organization and like it, I say they're welcome to it.
  
  
• 

  JAVA

  Arguing religion is about as useful as spitting in the wind. On the other hand, if someone brings the topic up to me I don't back away from the subject. Nor do I use my age as a way of crippling others if they're getting the upper hand. That's another way to trying to control someone. However, until a JW is looking beyond the Tower for answers, they'll blindly follow the Watchtower's bouncing ball all the way to the grave.
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  Daunt

  Reading this thread is bringing back so many memories of how my parents and brother and sister have forced me through this hell of a religion. They have no responsibility. Knowing tore that responsibility from them, fantasy has clouded their little bit of reasoning they had before the witnesses. This made them little police men for their children, and the elders are the police of the parents, and the organization is the police over everybody. Most people can not understand what goes on in the witness house, even after people leave they can't quite understand all the deception that goes on, all of this not knowing while you think you know and all this policing creates one mucked up religion.
  
  
  I'm still living under my parents house and I can just see all the little self deceptive cultist techniques that they use to force themselves into beleiving while forcing me and my siblings into it also. How they totally block out instances where their children may have not been the best JW they could be, keeping their high and mighty attitude about their family from slipping between their fingers. How they use to damn guilt trips on little impressionable children that do not have the ability to refute these things. Baptising them at young ages, pretty much holding them ransom to believe in what the org wants them to believe or else you litterally have no life. Whoever can't see this deserves to be in this religion, but bringing up children in this environment should be illegal. It is one of the most immoral things I have ever seen.
  
  
  Enough rambling for me. This was kinda somethin to you Gary to let out some of my stress eh.
• 

  jaffacake

  I was brought into a different cult by my mother. Neither of us are in anything now, but she still believes some of the stuff but is very confused, in her seventies now.

  My sister is bitter and finds it hard to forgive, however, I forgive totally. I figure my mother didnt decide one day to bring me up in a religion that would do me harm. She was more a victim tham me, still is. She believed the way we were brought up was the best for us all, every parent wants to do the best for us. If my mother had died before I had forgiven her I would have been more deeply hurt for the rest of my life. Forgiveness is healing, but it may take time.

  I think BluesBrother gave good advice, dont accept what she says, but prove your point with kindness and hard evidence?
• 

  garybuss

  Jeff, you wrote: "My sister is bitter and finds it hard to forgive, however, I forgive totally. I figure my mother didnt decide one day to bring me up in a religion that would do me harm."
  
  How does your mother treat you today? Does she shun you, or snub you or yell at you and slam doors? Was your mother abusive? Or was she just mistaken about a religion?
  
  I think a lot of us children of Witnesses could and would forgive, but some form of the abuse and bad behaviors continue without stop. Sometimes what looks like a change to some of us was just a set up so they could have access to us and our families once again to try a different approach to try to divide us or to try to guilt and shame us once more.
  
  It's very hard to forgive someone who is still abusing us and that's what many of us realize is still happening. We'd like to forgive and love them, but both forgiveness and love are blocked by them.
  
  
• 

  bikerchic

  Well as a 50 something who has left my life long religion I can say 50 isn't THAT old to leave.

  I don't want to make her feel terrible,but sometimes it's hard not to say things.She still clings to her meeting on sunday,and basic principlkes of the bible,but I at times feel betrayed because of her cntinuing to support that reloigion.I guess you just have to take it as comes.Has this happened to anyone else?Sometimes I care,sometimes I don't.I want my parents to know exactly how wrong the way they raised me was.I guess it was worse because I was so trusting.At a few times in my life,I actually beli9eved.When the rug got pulled out for me,I was left emotionally scarred.It is very difficult for me to forgive and forget.It's just the more you think about how ridicoulous there way of raising children was,the more angry I get.

  At some point you have to quit the blame game and be accountable for how your life is going now. If you spend more of your time, efforts and energy on living today and on making a better future you won't think so much about the past. Anger can eat you alive and control your life in far more destructible ways than having been brought up by two loving parents who thought they were doing their best for you.

  Concentrate on the good things they did do and forget the rest. The only power you have is to change yourself and your outlook. Everything else is a waste of precious time. If you are having a hard time getting past this seek out some counseling it will do you a world of good. In the meantime limit the association you have with your parents and for petes sake don't berate them that is so wrong IMHO. You too will make your mistakes with your children even though you will try your damnest to raise them as best as you can, how ungrateful would it seem to you if they threw it all back in your face.

  Good luck and enjoy the journey.
• 

  pratt1

  What works on one parent may not work on another. In my case I have a very open and close relationship with both my parents that is buildt on honesty.

  Therefore, I do not co-sign on to any of the Dubism and I make it perfectly clear when it is discussed. I also do not let my mom off the hook when the topic of my childhood or the childhods of children of dubs come up. Nor do I let my dad off the hook for being silent in my upbringing when the dubs were concerned.

  Do they realize the damage they have done, or the damage that is being caused to young children today by their dub parents? I am not sure, however I do know that my mom has become very outspoken in her congo about not shunning ones family and how by acting out of love and embracing them is what the bible actually teaches.

  I know I am lucky in this respect, and I am grateful, but in my opinion everyone needs to accept responsiblity for their actions even if they had the best intention.