Evilforce --- I've done plenty of research . I was not a j-dub . I have read alot of literature and was related to some , I still use their bible in fact but I just can't seem to find a trinity belief in any bible I've read . I believe strongly that the trinity belief was in practice before christianity arrived by the pagans . The old testament clearly states that jehovah is one jehovah and not three , jesus clearly stated he was not the father in the new testament but only a servant . Then when he was resurrected he was promoted to ruler of heaven and earth .Deuteronomy 6:4 Mathew 29:18 .
Went To A Church Today
by rocketman 52 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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hmike
Rocketman, I think it was actually courageous to step into a Christian church by yourself. Did you feel real strange, out of place, wondering what might happen to you there?
I was raised a Lutheran, and you gave a pretty fair assessment. That's a good place for a first encounter. Realize that other denominations will do things differently--music, sermon guidelines, procedure, etc.
As for what you said about the music, most mainline denominations use hymnals and it may seem a little dry. If you go to an independent, or non-denominational church, most use contemporary music with regular band instruments, and the music is displayed from an overhead projector or is in the worship bulletin. It's more lively, with people clapping to the music or lifting hands. The pastors wear casual clothes. If you have a chance to attend a Calvary Chapel, you'll get an idea. These churches want to appeal to people who have been turned off by "traditional" churches.
Most churches take offerings during the service. Don't feel obligated to give. The pastor of the church I attend even tells visitors not to give, so they won't get the impression that churches just want money. I've even been to a successful church that doesn't set aside a time for offering and the pastor doesn't even mention anything about it--ushers stand at the back with bags in case people want to drop something in on the way out.
More JWs, Mormans, and atheists should take time to explore what a good church can be like. They might be surprised.
I'm just glad you didn't decide to go to a Pentecostal or charismatic word church, where the whole congregation starts speaking in tongues during the service. You may have been scared off permanently.
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rocketman
Talesin - the Mrs wants nothing to do with the jws....or any religion, even her former one (Lutheran) for that matter. I didn't mention my plans to go, and she was asleep when I left. The church I went to was not the church she attended because I didn't want her family wondering why I was there but not her.
Heathen - Of all the religions I've looked into after going jw-inactive, The Biblical Unitarians impress me most. But, there are no fellowships in my area, or even close for that matter.. I have been corresponding with a representative from their affiliated site, Christian Education Services. He mentioned that if I want, I could start my own Fellowship. But I'm not sure I want to do that as of yet. Perhaps in time I will, but that poses problems such as finding people with whom to meet and finding a place in which to gather.
hmike - Oddly enough I wasn't nervous, though I knew no one there (I do know a couple that attend but they weren't there when I went). I do like the idea of more contemporary music. I've seen some stuff like that on TV and it looks kind of cool.
freedom96 - It sound like you've found a great place. I'm glad you're enjoying it so much. Non-demoninational sounds like a better bet in some respects than other churches.
Markfromcali - good observations.
AuntieJane and LT - Thanks for your kind comments.
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carla
Rocketman,
Do you know what synod it was? I grew up Miss. synod. If you should decide at some point to join any church on a regular basis (whether it is Lutheran or non-denominational or whatever) would you ever consider letting the pastor know about your jw backround? I ask because in these past two years and talking to countless pastors, I have found that most churches on a whole are unprepared for helping someone with a jw problem. Even the pastors know the basics of jw doctrine but they don't understand the real situation, in my opinion. I wonder if pastors get education in cults? Ex jw's could be so helpful to a pastor. I was in contact with a pastor and brought him the C of C book, as he had a mom & son secretly going to his church. The mom was very nervous. I just don't think people understand the culture and control.
From a non jw viewpoint you have no idea how crazy some of the jw doctrine sounds. Things that seem so important to jw's are almost a non issue with most Christians. Maybe an interesting side topic, but not a salvation issue at all.
Just so it doesn't suprise you, I remember when I was a girl, once a year all the boy scouts and girls scouts were to wear their scout uniform and hopefully they would bring a friend. You probably are not thinking this far in advance but, Christmas and Easter! Wait till you hear the choir then! and the little kids! Seeing the little kids sing Jesus Loves Me is priceless. And Silent Night at a candlelight service is truly an experience.
all the best, carla
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rocketman
Thanks Carla...after checking out the church's web site last night (after I went of course) I saw that they do have full choir (including youth) for their 11 AM worship. I'm sure that sounds much better. Also, they have a 9:30 AM 'informal' service, which would obviously differ from what I experienced and could be more suited to me.
In time, I would like to sit down with the Pastor and discuss some jw-related issues, should I keep attending. You hit the nail on the head too when you mentioned that jws make such major issues out of stuff that is minor or a non-issue. This to me is one of the biggest turn-offs with the jws. Things like playing organized sports, a guy with facial hair other than a mustache, supposedly "immodestly" dressed women, and such matters, which are inconsequential, do become major jw issues and create a suffocating atmosphere that stifles spirituality.
Heathen - I forgot to answer your question about other icons and such in the church. Besides the Flag, there was the usual stained glass windows and a cross or two. I have no objection personally to such objects. I figure that if the Israelites were instructed to have various images in the Tabernacle and Temple, then Christians can have a few too, as long as the images themselves are not worshiped.
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AK - Jeff
Rocketman -
Glad you made the 'excursion'. I have been toying with the idea for a while, but my work schedule makes it hard to get to any of the ones I would like to look at. [But I can't complain - while a dub I made this job change - and with the forced missing of the meetings I had time to get grips on my doubts and eventually left the 'truth']
However, wifey went to a non-denom church this weekend. She said it was nice and she felt good about the experience.
Your comments about how the Jw's always applied Jesus' words in Matthew to exalt Jw's and condemn other organized religion was on spot. Just like the 'fatihful and discreet slave' parable has been distorted to apply to groups rather than individuals. I think this is a common theme with the jw cult. It is a great mind washing approach to label people as part of a group rather than individually. But Jesus always seemed to be interested in individuals and he will certainly make his judgement based on individual actions. Good observation! I have noticed the same thing as I listen to Christian radio programs and sermons - these religions that we were told were so wicked and evil seem to have many things much closer to what Jesus meant than the jdubs ever did.
Sorry to drone on - thanx for sharing. I must log off now and listen to this rendition of Amazing Grace that is playing on the radio now.
Jeff
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heathen
So you are saying they don't make the sign of the cross and kneel in front of it like the catholics ? I don't seem to mind imagery but when people start with the adoration or excessive devotion then I I get totally turned off . Sure christ died but to create objects of stone and wood and use in worship is idolotry and is forbidden to christians .It just seems so morbid to me . As a matter of fact the church I went to had a live production and it included the death of christ by some actor actually on a cross but it certainly didn't help me appreciate what christ did anymore than I already do . They also had the belief that the only way into the city of new jerusalem was after the resurrection( BTW it was the belief that people are resurrected immediately after death) but it's my belief that the people alive when it descends to earth are the ones that are judged worthy of entering or not and the dead are all raised after christ arrives in kingdom power . I could go on but I guess the point is , just because something looks right doesn't mean it is . The people seemed very nice and all but I'm not going because I disagree . I am going to look into the unitarians a little more and see if there is a church around here , I have talked to some one on the web but he did not accept the divinity of christ so that may be one reason I don't get involved with that either . He thought my beliefs of a dual rulership and Godship made me a twonitarian .LOL I mean if you look at Isaiah 9:6 the messiah is called Mighty God . My belief is that jesus was promoted and shares in Gods glory . OK OK OK enough said for now .....
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DazedAndConfused
I think it is great that you tried another religion. For me, and I have done a lot of research on other religions, feel like the Lutherans are the closest in how I believe. I have a problem with organised religion, with due cause, so I do not attend. My hubby was raised Lutheran, even considered being a pastor (?).
On your "con" side, if I may, I will put in rebuttals. (Sorry but I do not know how to do quotes)
"- While there was Bible reading from selected verses, the congregation simply followed along from the printed program rather than using the Bibles located on the back of the pews. On the other hand, print is print, and it's the words that are important, not so much the book itself. Still, it's easy to see why many churchgoers don't know their Bible as well as jws do (at least scripture locations anyway). "
I agree with you. I remember as a teen calling on a Baptist Minister. He then told another witness (Elder I think) that he was very impressed with how our young were taught the Bible.
"- A US Flag inside the church. After being a jw for so long, it's hard to get used to seeing a flag around. Memorial Day was also mentioned as a time of solemn rememberance. But then again, I thought as I sat there that, had it not been for the sacrifices of those who served in the military, we'd have none of the freedoms (including worship) that we enjoy today. So I can't really knock the nod to our fighting men and women. "
This brings to mind a recent thread, sorry I can't remember whose it was...but I would suggest reading Romans chapter 13.
"- Passing the plate. Again hard to get used to. But I threw in a buck and it was all good. "
I would think this is a minor deal. After all, in the Hall and at the assemblies you are tripping over boxes every 3 feet. lol
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heathen
I agree with you. I remember as a teen calling on a Baptist Minister. He then told another witness (Elder I think) that he was very impressed with how our young were taught the Bible.
Any baptist I've ever known would never say that . They think the WTBTS is a cult and that they wrote their own bible to fit the religious ideas . Quite fankly I think they are more interested in WTBTS dogma than what the bible actually says . I suppose if you beat the hell out of your kid enough he will pay attention some . They certainly don't make it interesting or fun . I have yet to hear the entire congregation sing kingdom melodies in key ...........................
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nicolaou
Well it's certainly not for me but I applaud the idea of broadening your personal experience. I have attended a couple of Church services, and even a pagan wedding perfomed by a druid priestess [I think].
Frankly I'd love to attend a synagogue, mosque, Hindu temple and any number of other 'faith cermonies'. I'm atheist but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate how other people feel, live and worship.
We're all different but we're all the same.
Nic'
[getting deep]