From hmike
“Now if science is willing to go this far, what makes the existence of God and heaven so incredible? Heaven could be one of those parallel universes, and spiritual beings the intelligent life form. It's seems strange what people are willing to believe--UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligent life, ghosts, psychic phenomena, Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster--and not believe in the existence of God, or at least some kind of supreme being.”
Scientists aren't claiming the membrane theory and all these other theories to be absolute fact. Especially the theories involving multiple universes, even though there is some evidence for em. It could be heaven or what not but until you have some evidence for it all we can do is go by what we've experimented with, the possibility of multi-universes. Any good scientist wouldn't claim this to be absolute truth much like deists. They observe and they know, there's not too much believing in this. You're jumping the gun by thinking that testing and observing the possibility of alternative universes is comparable to beleif in God. One is blind, cannot be tested, does not give a hint of anything that makes it more valid than a fantasy book, and the other is hard tested fact.
You use observations and test things all through your life, that's how you learn and observe life. If you didn't you would still have the mentality of a baby. Now if we use the principles of mysticism for real life advancement of a child, we would have dire consequences. It just doesn't stand up to hardcore real life evidence.
“This brings me to the question of what kind of proof would be satisfactory to the skeptics? Suppose that Jesus himself ripped open the interdimensional door and revealed the host of heaven. Would some maintain that it's all an illusion, mass hallucination, or some other kind of deception? Would it be explained as something else? “
If he actually did this there would be no atheists, they would be considered irrational by being able to not prove that that instances just happened where Jesus showed himself to us. However, this is not the case, until then Jesus being the son of God and God existing is no more valid than Frodo saving middle earth, in our reality at least.
“ (1) They insist on a "closed" system in nature, that is, only things that conform to known physical laws are acceptable. Miracles are not possible because they violate the natural order of things--what is known and accepted. No influence from the outside can exist. (Related to that is, “It hasn't happened in my life or to anyone I know, therefore it doesn’t happen at all.”).
(2) Accepting the reality of the Biblical God means being accountable, and people want to live their lives the way they want ("We will not have this man king over us"). No God--no standards.
(3) The position that God isn't real is springs from emotional reasons--being hurt, deceived, or abused by Christians, a church or other organization, or from something they feel God did or didn't do that hurt or disappointed them: accident, death of a loved one, unanswered prayer... Any subsequent evidence against the existence of God is used to support or justify that position. “
I'm not going to argue about your experiences because I really do not know them, but however, these are somewhat prejudice and judgmental on atheists, especially if you're using this to judge the majority of atheists. Using the no God no Standards reasoning is no better intellectually than theists. We're bound by natural human laws everyday, (If you are too promiscuous without care for your health, you can get STDS, or if you punch a guy in the street you will get in a lot of trouble from other humans even in the most basic of civilizations). Ignoring these effects of human nature is living in a fantasy world.
Really I do not how much to argue about these statements other than, interact with more atheists and agnostics with an open mind.
“ There are some people who have chosen not to accept the existence of God for intellectual reasons. Far too much of the evidence for that position is taken as established fact when actually it is circumstantial, and even weak at that. “
Would like some examples of the established facts that are weak for an atheistic mentality. And would like some alternative that actually gives strong evidence. But really, God not having any observable interaction with this reality is fact enough. By the reasoning a lot of theists, not believing in at the possibility of an imaginary being is irrational, however this is way too loose to be grounded in. By this reasoning it would be stupid not to spend your whole life trying to bow down to Bigfoot, however I think that most would agree that this is idiotic. Well then why is the theists' mystical being anymore valid or important? Bigfoot could be the God of the universe, but everybody would agree that it's ignorant to spend your life bowing down to him (repeating for the sake of emphasis)
Prove to me that God exists
by CinemaBlend 257 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Daunt
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jt stumbler
Sorry wrong clip. Proof that God exists.
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doogie
Agnostics are people open to the possibility that God exists, but are withholding any conclusions until there is more evidence.
man, i wish i could find it, but awhile ago someone posted a paper re: atheism v. agnostcism. i printed it out immediately because it explained the problem that i have with the term 'agnostic' perfectly. i wish i could find it but i can't even remember who posted it.literally, to say that you are agnostic implies that you are without knowledge, not that you are withholding judgment. to call yourself agnostic literally means that you do not know whether you believe in god(s) or not, not whether there is a god(s) or not (or whether it is possible to know). it means you don't know if you know how you feel. to say that you don't know what you believe implies a lack of interest and effort...not a lack of evidence forcing a withholding of judgment. an agnostic is just a PC atheist.
it's all semantics, i know, but taken literally, there are no agnostics (unless you live under a rock and have never heard of the concept of god).
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hibiscusfire
The Universe is a vacuum.
Where then did matter and energy come from?
Where did the earth, sun, moon and the constellations of stars come from?
Other than God Himself, something cannot come out of nothing.
Every effect must have a cause. The energy in the Universe is the effect. What causes it?
The Scriptures rightly show the foolishness and inconsistency of man -
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..." ( Psa 14:1 )
Hibiscusfire
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tetrapod.sapien
(1) They insist on a "closed" system in nature, that is, only things that conform to known physical laws are acceptable. Miracles are not possible because they violate the natural order of things--what is known and accepted. No influence from the outside can exist. (Related to that is, “It hasn't happened in my life or to anyone I know, therefore it doesn’t happen at all.”). (2) Accepting the reality of the Biblical God means being accountable, and people want to live their lives the way they want ("We will not have this man king over us"). No God--no standards. (3) The position that God isn't real is springs from emotional reasons--being hurt, deceived, or abused by Christians, a church or other organization, or from something they feel God did or didn't do that hurt or disappointed them: accident, death of a loved one, unanswered prayer... Any subsequent evidence against the existence of God is used to support or justify that position.
interesting hmike, but all three points contain fallacies. i really think you should spend some more time with atheists. if anything, theists are less accountable for their actions because they can always blame invisible spirit forces for the things they do. atheists really have no one to blame but themselves when they screw up.
hib,
Other than God Himself, something cannot come out of nothing.
Precious.
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doogie
The Scriptures rightly show the foolishness and inconsistency of man
i've thought this for a long time, but probably for fundamentally different reasons than you.
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hibiscusfire
An atheist has no excuse in life.
NO EXCUSE FOR NOT KNOWING HIS GOD:
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. -
Rom 1:19-20
Hibiscusfire
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doogie
An atheist has no excuse in life.
what does that even mean?
careful...this could easily be construed as inciting hatred based on someone's beliefs...
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Chia
Yes, and also, the same thing, among other enlightenment hibiscusfire has "blessed" us with has already been said on another thread.
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hibiscusfire
doogie:
An atheist has no excuse in life.
NO EXCUSE FOR NOT KNOWING HIS GOD as I posted above and continuing....
An atheist has NO EXCUSE FOR NOT KNOWING HIS SINS:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. - Rom 3:23
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. -1 Jn 1:10
An atheist has NO EXCUSE FOR NOT KNOWING HIS JUDGMENT:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. - Rom 1:32
Hibiscusfire