by theotherside 37 Replies latest members adult
Can anyone relate to this subtle manipulation?
I agree. It took me over 6 months to fully comprehend what Grace actually meant. I kept trying to apply "underserved kindess". But after reading Galations from the Living Bible did it finally dawn on me that no works were involved with Grace. Grace is a gift.
But I think you are right about the subtle manipulation. If the R&F JW figured out they didn't need to work for Grace.....lol....that religion would dry up!
btw, welcome to the board.
Joy
I really believe Fred Franz and the GB wanted to make the organization so different from main stream Christianity
You just know that when ol' Freddie was writing the NWT that he had to have thought "Hmm, how should I translate this..'Grace'?...ew, that's a Christendom word...can't have that..'underserved kindness'...yes, that's much better, more wooden and uninspired like the rest of this clumsy translation..."
Undeserved kindness to me seems to say "look at all I've done for you and you didn't deserve *any* of it you piece of crap" which is very much in line with how the WT leadership likes for dubs to think of themselves.
Grace is so much more positive, in my mind.
Let's say your child needed a heart transplant, without, the child WILL die, lo and behold a heart becomes available, you are joyful, the operation goes well. The child is expected to fully recover and lead a productive life. Your joy is overflowing, then you remember, in order for your child to live, someone else's has died. Your joy is tempered by the loss of anothers. How could you ever 'repay' this family? You never could. No amount of money, nothing you could offer could replace this precious child. They gave you and your child a gift, the gift of life. An unselfish act for your benefit. In their grief, they thought of you and the life of your child. You simply cannot 'pay' back something like that. What does anybody have to 'offer' God? If all is His and created by Him, what does any of us actually have to offer Him?Other than our faith. Undeserved kindness is what we get instead of what we deserve, that is what grace is
I'm sorry; false analogy.
When a heart is "given" it is after an __accident_.
If a parent arranged for a son to be killed so that the heart could be given to "save" another's life this would be considered ghastly and outrageous. Even if the son agreed with the madness.
Let us not connect the barbaric and irrational story of Jesus with someone donating after death for the benefit of another.
If you are going to be dead anyway and you don't begrudge the use of your heart; that is not a SACRIFICE. That is a donation out of something you have no further use for.
Wonderful and commendable but in no way analagous to the Jesus massacre.
T.
They gave you and your child a gift, the gift of life.
They , The Parents could have easily have said NO, The child who was dead had no say in the matter. They took the occasion to show love to someone else , no doubt it took alot not to be so wrapped up in thier own loss that they not have compassion for someone else who was on the verge of losing a loved one. That level of love is where the analogy comes into play
I gotta go w/ Nark on this one, that this translation isn't necessarily a WTS-spin. "undeserved kindness" is compatible with the concept of man's "total depravity"--that man is so corrupted in comparison with the perfect righteousness of God that there isn't a thing man can do to deserve salvation. So it TOTALLY depends on God's kindness in saving someone, and none of it has anything to do with man deserving it.
No contest! Undeserved kindness bludgeons grace mercilessly into a stain on the mat.
Er, we were talking Deathmatch, right?
I gotta go w/ Nark on this one, that this translation isn't necessarily a WTS-spin. "undeserved kindness" is compatible with the concept of man's "total depravity"--that man is so corrupted in comparison with the perfect righteousness of God that there isn't a thing man can do to deserve salvation. So it TOTALLY depends on God's kindness in saving someone, and none of it has anything to do with man deserving it.
Makes you stop and wonder why God is at odds with his OWN opinion, doesn't it?
I mean, it was God who decided we were depraved; it was His opinion that condemned mankind in the first place. So, he undoes this opinion by allowing the torture/murder of his son. Lovely. What kind of idiocy thinks up a plot like this? In effect, God gets his knickers in a twist and then undoes it himself. What a waste of human life!
T.
It is all a joke. A pathetic insecure doG (thanks Talesin - I love the expression, being dyslexic and all) that creates imperfect peasants on a spec of the universe, make them believe it is all about them, and then is so insecure that he threatens them that if they do not praise him, he will fry their butts forever, or wipe them out in Armageddon. And because he screwed up and regrets it (Gen.6:6) he makes them blame themselves and have to beg him for grace and undeserved kindness. So you have pathetic little humans worshipping an equally patheric little doG. And they deserve each other!
