Udeserved kindness Vs Grace

by theotherside 37 Replies latest members adult

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  theotherside

  Since I have become a born-again Christian, I have experienced grace in my life. Thus it is easier to give grace to those around me. I think as a JW, it's hard to give grace because it's never received. Undeserved kindness might be given if you feel like it.

  So true. Jws dont learn the meaning of Love because of how they are trained......Love is conditional based on how much activity you show and when you dont follow the program you feel the coldness of how people really are. Kinda like the parable Jesus used about the man who owed a huge amount of debt, couldnt pay it, his master forgave the whole amount, and then this person goes off and has a person who owed him a petty sum thrown in jail....tell me everybody that sees through this and leaves the organization dont see Jws having this same attitude
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  Narkissos

  Undeserved kindness does not evoke a meaning or act of love. It is an obligation.

  Undeserved kindness might be given if you feel like it.
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  Euphemism

  Nark... I think the biggest difference is one of emphasis. "Undeserved kindness" emphasizes the status of the recipient. "Grace" emphasizes the attitude of the giver.
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  purplesofa

  By working hard for God we can some how repay God for his gift of life through his Son's sacrifice.

  I think what is so nice about giving up this idea is one does not walk around feeling forever like they are never doing enough. How can we earn something that we already have? Its like taking two anti-biotics when One works, taking two won't get you well any faster. It is not necessary.
  

  I have enjoyed doing things for people since I quit going to the meetings.......Since my job puts me on the road alot. I have helped people alot lately, when before I would have went on by, or not even been approachable to be asked.

  I thought about this on Friday,,,,,,I was going into one business and a man asked where was the closest place to eat. His son had dropped him off at DR appt for stress test. I thought about the distance and offered a ride and back to him......It took all of about 10 mins. He offered to buy my lunch. I declined as my diet did not allow me to eat there. He was grateful and I felt really good. When I dropped him off he said, I will try to do something nice for someone today.......That's great, you do that! I said back to him.

  The same day a lady was at the wrong building for her DR appt and was very old and out of breath and asked how much would I charge to drive her to correct building. Well, I did it for nothing.....took about 5 mins.....she was grateful and I felt good.

  Well, I lost my train of thought. OK.......
  

  I think the biggest difference is one of emphasis. "Undeserved kindness" emphasizes the status of the recipient. "Grace" emphasizes the attitude of the giver.

  So this can be applied in something as simple as doing this for these strangers, Can it not?

  purps
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  purplesofa

  hey theotherside,

  Thanks so much for posting this........

  lol..........obsessed ..........you are obsessed!!!!!

  purps

  we got some pretty weather today, don't we?

  and glad you are off work since you are online!!!! woohoo
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  candidlynuts

  Euph! you rock!

  thats the most profound , consise thing i've seen anyone say about the issue!

  I think the biggest difference is one of emphasis. "Undeserved kindness" emphasizes the status of the recipient. "Grace" emphasizes the attitude of the giver.
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  JamesThomas

  "Undeserved kindness", is the sound an old truck makes as it bounces across a rocky dried-up river bed.

  "Grace", on the other-hand, is sweet and melodious to the ear.

  It is not surprising that the Witness religion being so harsh and rigid, favors old rusty springs .

  

  j
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  frankiespeakin

  When I think of the word "undeserved kindness" I think of it being undeserved,, like the person that gets this treatment is a bad person and so any kindness shown to him he is not even worthy of it is completely undeserved. It has such a bad conotation to it. I think that's why the WT uses it they concider all the sheep as unworthy people which you may or may not show kindness to. There is no obligation on there part because they are unworthy so that if you don't show this kindness no biggy they were not deserving of it anyway.
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  jgnat

  Here are the googilisms for grace.

  http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:grace

  Divine grace consists of gifts granted to humanity by God, that God is under no need or obligation to grant. Most broadly, grace describes all of God's gifts to humankind, including our life, creation, and salvation, which God gives to us freely. More narrowly but more commonly, grace describes the means by which humans are saved from original sin and granted salvation. This latter concept of grace is of central importance in the theology of Christianity, as well as one of the most contentiou
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_(religion)

  From Strong's:

  khar'-ece

  From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
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  Narkissos

  Euph,

  Undeserved kindness" emphasizes the status of the recipient.

  That might be true of "undeserved," not "kindness".

  I think the phrase "undeserved kindness" has been designed to suit the Pauline use of kharis, e.g. Romans 4:4: "Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a grace (kata kharin) but as something due (kata opheilèma)."

  However it would poorly suit non-Pauline uses such as the ones I mentioned above. Interestingly the NWT does not always translate kharis by "undeserved kindness" in such cases. For instance, in John 1 it has

  So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth. (John bore witness about him, yes, he actually cried out?this was the one who said [it]?saying: "The one coming behind me has advanced in front of me, because he existed before me.") For we all received from out of his fullness, even undeserved kindness upon undeserved kindness. Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ.

  But in Luke 2:52:

  And Jesus went on progressing in wisdom and in physical growth and in favor (kharis!) with God and men.

  I am all for criticising the NWT when it deserves (!) criticism. In this case I can see the inconsistency and occasional overtranslation (e.g. in GJohn), yet I fail to see any dark motivation behind it: to me "undeserved kindness" sounds very Protestant as far as the issue "faith vs. works" is concerned, and as such it clashes even more with the WT conception of "works for salvation". The NW Translators could have pushed the "undeserved kindness" translation to belittle Jesus (or Mary, cf. 1:28ff) in Luke, but they didn't.