DOES THE BIBLE CONTAIN ANY VALUABLE OR USEFUL FACTS AT ALL???

by Terry 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    .... yeah.... "With his left arm he embraces her, with his right arm he caresses her". Good description of foreplay; that's valuable and interesting.

    But hardly unique Biblical knowledge. What is 'useful' or 'valuable' is all man-made wisdom or knowledge that one would get from similar documents made by other cultures.

    If you give concrete examples (Chapter, verse, and your claim) Evanescence, I'd be happy to explain why they are man-made and not divinely inspired.

    And there is the BAD advice...

    Well, I suppose killing everyone in an invasion, apart from virgin girls, is both a good and a bad example; it is bad for those killed, and the poor children who are brutalised again after watching their families being hacked to death. But its would certainly be a way of inspiring fear and destroying an enemy. And that is in the Bible, a commandmant from god apparently...

    Let me see; oh, I know ... Deuteronomy 24:16 states: "Children should not be put to death on account of fathers." Good advice. Unfortunately god cannot take his own advice, as in Exodus 20:5 and elsewhere god states explicitly he would 'piss upon' the children, grandchildren, and great grandchlidren of those that disobeyed him. Yah, can yah just SMELL that divine justice? Mmmmmmm!

    Oh yes; think of the millions of lives saved very year by not making garments out of mixed fabrics; no polycotton for a longer life! LOL

    And how else could we explain the missing day in time if it weren't for the story about Joshua? *rolls eyes as there's bound to be someone who still believes that's true*.

    The Bible is exactly what you would expect of a book written in the periods it was written. As with most major religions it suggests living life in harmony and peace with one's neighbour is a good idea.

    Yah, now that OBVIOUSLY an idea only god could come up with... no way a human could think of anything that clever...

  • robhic
    robhic
    God can cure our illness sometimes if it is a need for our salvation not a want. Sometimes adversity can be a blessing in disguise!

    God works through scientists and doctors also to help us!

    In line one, the word "sometimes" is key. Since sometimes denotes randomness, then mere co-incidence could also be the reason for an event to take place. It could be a random act and is only "spiritually motivated" if you choose to accept that as a reason.

    Line two is the same thing. Doctors and scientists work their tails off to learn and help people. Saying a success here or there is a result of divine intervention is not only a slight to the doctors/scientists who actually did the deed but is another example of seeing what you want to see in a situation. It's a matter of perspective: you see god's influence and I see a person who knows his stuff as a professional.

    And there were enough exclamation points in that post to fill a Watchtower magazine. Holy cow!

  • Jez
    Jez

    I believe the bible reflects humanity, not that it offered some mind blowing advice on how to live. The writers time capsuled via words, the best and the worst of humanity. They observed, they reported, they did not receive some divine intervention to write those words.

    It is a fairy tale to me, sprinkled with true glimpses of an ancient people, culture, etc. Inevidably, it has been expounded on far too much, to be a historial book. The very nature of oral history allows for a weaving in of 'extra' information. To think that the bible should be our guide for living, is too simple to me now.

    Every culture deals with the questions of life in its own way. Death is explained in so many ways, the bible writers soothed peoples fears by telling them that they would go to heaven, or live with lambs on the earth picking apples forever, whatever you want to believe.

    But, if you believe the bible, and that is what grounds you in life, fine!

    Jez

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    Yes. I think it does. Now, just because the JWs burned us does not mean we should discount whatever good things we can sift out of the bible. I'm not going to speak for everybody but I feel that with regard to morality the bible is right. What people are doing today with being promiscuous is a bad thing for everybody. The whole world is not a better place because everybody is jumping on everybody else's bones.

    LHG

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974
    I believe the bible reflects humanity, not that it offered some mind blowing advice on how to live. The writers time capsuled via words, the best and the worst of humanity. They observed, they reported, they did not receive some divine intervention to write those words.

    Exactly....whilst the words are not the inspired words of god but they do reflect the very worst and best of humanity....besides that....not really much use.

  • Jez
    Jez
    What people are doing today with being promiscuous is a bad thing for everybody. The whole world is not a better place because everybody is jumping on everybody else's bones.

    Why not? It worked in bible times. What people are doing today, is no different than what people were doing yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that........

    Maybe you should look into history and learn some of the sexual practices that were the 'norm' before you just assume that THEN was better than NOW. Look at other cultures and see what is considered 'normal'. Your statement reeks of generality.

    Jez

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    Dear Jez:

    I am sorry if you think my statement "reeks of generality" and it is not a personal attack on anybody so please don't get emotional. To each his own.

    LHG

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974
    Maybe you should look into history and learn some of the sexual practices that were the 'norm' before you just assume that THEN was better than NOW. Look at other cultures and see what is considered 'normal'.

    This is a really good point...when it comes to sexual practices I would bet my left arm (notice its not my right) that we are less liberal than society was back then; the romans and greeks were infamous for homosexuality and sexual perversions and wouldnt bat an eye lid at promiscuity; Sodom & Gomorrah...need I say more about what we are told went on there.

    The issue in the bible which highlighted Lots daughters being offered for rape is testament to the fact that such things were considered normal, he went on then to actually sleep with his daughters. One elder pointed out that he was drunk but we all know that he mustnt have been THAT drunk. Again it goes to show on a limited scale that such things were considered the norm or at least were marginally acceptable.

    Truth be told I think Jez is right we are certainly no worse than we were back then, sex these days in its various forms has become stigmatised and is still treated as a taboo subject even in the more liberal of our cultures and this creates a different situation to back then but it might well be argued that things were a damn sight worse when people were less intelligent.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Here is my understanding of what the Bible really is.

    1.Early people (families, tribes) guessed at how the world worked. Mystery is the result of ignorance (not knowing).

    2.People used dreams, fantasy, imagination and put together a kind of theory (mythos) about why things happened.

    3.Children would hear these stories growing up. Each family and tribe and ethnic group ended up hearing similar stories.

    4.Explanations pointed often to invisible "persons" (who eventually became what we'd call gods) doing things and interacting with humans and thus causing events, disasters, scenarios that served as the "why" of the unfolding. In effect, there were no alternative explanations.

    5.Super heroes (invisible, of course) were fun to conjecture about. So, the stories grew more organic. In the same way the Illiad or the Odyssey was built from constant retelling; so too local mythos was colored by new ideas and better storytellers accretions.

    6.Once the nation loses track of the FACT that it is only a made up story they are telling; it becomes a kind of HISTORY. Often a factual event became more "interesting" by mixing it with heroic colorings.

    7.The early Semites were no different in their mythos. These stories were more or less similar among different tribes (since they grew into multiple familes from earlier families of smaller sizes.) The roots of characters, events and times were commonly shared.

    8.The event of being torn away from their homeland by deportations from invaders (Babylonian destruction and forced immigration) split these homogeneous people into separate groups.

    9.Some remained behind and some were taken away and exposed to new ideas and different stories and altogether strange explanations for how the world works. see: Ahura Mazda.

    10. The "good" ideas drove out the bad and the deported people gradually changed their historic understandings by updating them with the new ideas from the surrounding people.

    11. Upon repatriation (returning to their homeland) generation now lived who had not been exposed to the old stories; they knew only the updated versions.

    12. The stay-behind groups now encountered the updated groups. Arguments resulted. Stories didn't quite mesh. An outside agency of arbitration became necessary to set matters straight about who did what and why.

    At this point a peculiar and singular event pops up into view. Whenever people disagree about something important to them they appeal to some source of arbitration. What, exactly, would prove who was right and who had it wrong? Voila! Anybody seen anything written down?

    It is out of arguments that apologies are born. Or, should I say Apologia. Writings appear to corroborate one's viewpoint and writings appear to refute the other guy's viewpoint. Orthodoxy is born by having a permanent record appear one can appeal to the way one settles a pronunciation argument by grabbing a dictionary.

    The often different versions of the same story becomes a patchwork compromise document to make both parties partially right and end the discords. Two creation accounts, two versions of Noah's activities, these are the efforts of a middleman (redactor) to sew two patches together and make one garment worth wearing.

    So too in the time following Jesus' death. Stories circulated everywhere as each viewpoint was told by word of mouth. Questions, arguments, counterarguments always end up calling for an arbitration process. Voila! Things get written down and attributed to the highest authority possible to prove who is right and who is wrong.

    The Council of Nicea was the new (Christian-sympathizer) Emperor of Rome Constantine's idea to settle these sorts of orthodoxy fights. Rulers want peace and taxes paid. Without peace there is no security. So, eventually, somebody had to decide which of the stories about Jesus would become offical and which would become heresy. The point was to stop the bickering.

    If you read about who made these choices and what kinds of men they were (politically) you discover why we have the Bible we have today.

    You get out of a political group the very thing the majority of the group decides they want to obtain. The APOSTLE'S CREED has been with us ever since. The Apocrypha is so named as a result. The "lost" books are a result.

    It is all the result of imagination, arguments, arbitrations and traditional points of view melting together to prove somebody is right and somebody is wrong.

    THE BIBLE is layers and layers and layers of these things. That is why it is mostly incomprehensibly boring gibberish. Further, that is why the greatest genuis in history in each generation devotes their full intellect to patching up the leaks. The long history of usefullness in manipulating masses of gullible people is too good to ignore. Scripture is a powerful weapon to rally people to do your bidding and to lable your enemy as worthy of contempt and annhilation.

    New generations of children are born completely naive to all of the above. They are told a very carefully edited story by their parents and made to think it is THE only viewpoint worth believing.

    Thousands of different variations on those same stories continue. They all differ slightly according to tastes and customs. We call those different tastes and customs DENOMINATIONS.

    Sadly, the majority of people whose lives are controlled thereby are witless to the manipulation of their mind because they are unwilling or too lazy to explore the actual history of the very book (scripture) that controls them.

    Besides, all the singing and back-slapping and grinning feels good. You are always on the winning team. Gosh, it feels magnificent to be absolutely convinced you are right and everybody else is a fool.

    How do you know? The bible tells you so.

    Terry

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    Most definetly!

    Do not put your trust in human nobles nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.

    courtesy of Psalms 146:3.......

    Annie

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