Help me out with some feedback: How to build trust with jw cult identity

by Check_Your_Premises 22 Replies latest jw experiences

  • darkuncle29

    Very nicely done. I thought it was interesting too, to use as a way of seeing what behaviors may still be lurking in the EX JW mind and behaviors. I think I am still guilty of at least half of that.. But at least I'm learning to see it.

  • Shawn

    Sorry folks "UBM"? Lost me on that one.

  • Balsam

    Since leaving the JW nearly 4 years ago, I did those very same suggestions with my two sons. The youngest one was the one I had to be careful with. But it was successful. Both boys had been raised in the JW by my ex-husband and I. There Dad continues to be one.

    I am also using those same techniques on a JW gal who has been dropping by my house about once a month as a return visit and to count time. We have had some engaging discussions. LOL She of course don't know me from adam since I moved here from somewhere else. She sees me as a friend which is nice. If she knew the truth she would probably have a heart attack.

  • rebel8

    CYP, well done! You offer a very unique point of view and I believe your special insights will be helpful to many.

    One suggestion is to begin with a section defining what you mean by cult identity and why it?s essential to recognize it. I think I know what you?re getting at, but I?m not sure.

    You mentioned help with presentations if female. I?ve been out a long time, so correct me if I?m wrong?don?t women still do presentations? If so, a husband could still help a wife w/presentations.

    Another important thing I noticed is that this article is applicable to those who are in the building trust phase but may be less applicable to those in the planting seeds of doubt phase. You are basically advocating complimentary behavior toward JWs to gain trust. However, if someone who already has trust but wants to encourage their JW loved one to begin questioning the religion, such complimentary behavior would be counterproductive. For that person, an opposite behavior of engaging in small challenges to the religion is the best strategy. Your strategy is definitely valid for your situation; perhaps you may want to preface the article by defining when the strategy is appropriate.

  • Check_Your_Premises

    Thanks all for your input.

    As the summary states, it is only a summary. The concepts it is describing such as "cult identity" vs "authentic identity" are described in Steven Hassan's book, Releasing the Bonds. This book is the manual or template I am using and implementing. Building trust with the cult member is probably the most important step in the process. This is what any person using Hassan's book to help a jw leave, will have to do. I am trying to save any such people in my situation some time. I am an engineer. We always document our processes. And hopefully I can find some friends who will figure out some of the other things we need to do to save me some time!

    I would like to post this on a web site dedicated to ubm's (unbelieving mates) or anyone else trying to help a loved one leave using Hassan's method. I intend to post this summary as well as future ones. I was careful not to go into great detail as if to plagiarize his work. I want him to help us, not be mad at us for ripping him off or messing up his ideas by giving bad advice!

    This summary is meant to only deal with this trust building step. This is not meant to be a comprehinsive how-to for helping someone leave. To discuss any other aspects of helping a person leave would be outside the scope. Maybe I will add some info that makes that more clear.

  • Check_Your_Premises
    You mentioned help with presentations if female. I?ve been out a long time, so correct me if I?m wrong?don?t women still do presentations? If so, a husband could still help a wife w/presentations.

    Yes the idea is it would be great for a Christian husband to help their jw wife work on their presentation. Give ideas, help her practice it.

  • Check_Your_Premises
    To me the best and only way to get someone out of the dubs is to stay approachable and wait. Human beings are logical creatures and sooner or later every JW is going to have doubts about their highly illogical faith. If you wait for them to have their doubts and remain approachable enough that they can bring them to you then you might make some headway.

    What you are saying is completely valid. You cannot "cause" a person to leave. You cannot convince them that the jws are a mind control cult.

    On the other hand, I do not think a person should simply sit back and wait. You can do more than that.

    What you can do to is try to provide the ideas and information that will help them come to the correct conclusion themselves.

    That is what Hassan's book is all about.

    As for your point about it not being a good idea for ex-jw's to use the loaded language; You are probably right. I am not a counselor. I am just a person who is trying to implement some advice given by one. I can only offer it from my perspective. That is why I submitted it to all of you folks for feedback.

    Help me out here then. What do you think will happen to an ex-jw that uses loaded language. Do you think they will return? If they are susceptible to returning, are they really in a position to be helping someone leave in the first place? Have they really left?

  • what_Truth?

    A JW might not go back just because of using loaded language, but your other points (the bible studies, the literature, the meetings, etc) are a definate trigger that can send someone on the road to ruin, especially if the loved one they are trying to build an identity with go to the same hall that they used to.

    He might know that the JW's are full of crap, but it doesn't stop him from reacting when sister so-and-so gives them the 'ol "Good to see you" hug and a smile 10 years later. It doesn't stop 'single sister old flame' from thinking "Hey, he's going to meetings, now I can talk to him again. When brother elder steps to the pulpit and asks "doesn't this make us happy?" on some inane point or other he might smile, clap, and actually feel happy because of past conditioning. Then there are the familiar kingdom songs, the smell of the building, and the wonderful paradise stories that can make you feel like life ain't so bad after all so long as you keep believing.

    not only that, but how many people here have admitted in their life stories that they went back at some point or other? Ask any of the undercover apostates how many suplicants got baptised last convention. Also consider that even the people who get DF'd have a 30% return rate. (As much as I'd like to beleive that most of these are future faders you know as well as I do that it's not usually the case).

    That's not to say that an ex-JW shouldn't try to help people leave. In fact I beleive that each and every person on this site has a responsibility to stick their neck out and expose the WTBS for what it is. However going to a Kingdom Hall to build trust is a bit like an AA member downing shots in a bar to build trust with an alcoholic he's trying to rescue.

  • Check_Your_Premises


    Cool, thanks for clearing that up for me. That is why I put it out there. See, I knew someone wanted to fight!


  • Check_Your_Premises

    Hey what truth,

    I thought about your comments some more. It is true that my summary was written from a non-jw perspective. As you pointed out, these are not ideal recommendations for an ex-jw.

    Well you know, it is easy to criticize.... do you have any suggestions you could offer?


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