there's an old saying that i'm going to misquote,
"give me a boy (or girl) till he is seven and i will show you the man" or words to that effect.
and that's without engaging in mind control techniques.
so there is a good chance that this will stay with us forever (see my biog).
like an ex-alcoholic we will always be ex-dubs but that doesn't mean we can't have a great life, especially if we don't reach for the "bottle" ever again.
zaphod