607? 587? What does it matter

by IP_SEC 63 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    Personally I believe that 607 is not the right date, but here is another point of view.

    Does 607 or 587 or 609 or 586 or 1914 really matter? No, I know it does if your whole theology is based on whether or not Christ began ruling some fabled intermediary kingdom before the real Messianic kingdom.

    I focus this at guys like scholar and other proponents of the 607 date. Look, lets agree on a few things.

    1. 539 BC is based purely on archeological evidence.
    2. Without archeology there would be no basis for counting back to 607 or 587.

    Now scholar, I know what you?re going to say, ?We can count the reigns of the kings of Israel up to 607 without archeology? But if that were the case I think that would be how the Society would do it. They start counting backward from the pivotal date of 539 BC. It is pivotal because it is historic. 539 isn?t proven by the bible, it is proven by history. You cannot reach 607 without 539, and you cannot reach 539 with out archeology. Am I right or wrong? Hey I'm just going by what the Society says right here.

    *** si p. 282 Study Number 2?Time and the Holy Scriptures ***27 Pivotal Dates. Reliable Bible chronology is based on certain pivotal dates. A pivotal date is a calendar date in history that has a sound basis for acceptance and that corresponds to a specific event recorded in the Bible. It can then be used as the starting point from which a series of Bible events can be located on the calendar with certainty. Once this pivotal point is fixed, calculations forward or backward from this date are made from accurate records in the Bible itself, such as the stated life spans of people or the duration of the reigns of kings. Thus, starting from a pegged point, we can use the reliable internal chronology of the Bible itself in dating many Bible events. Yes but only after you have a pivotal date

    *** si p. 285 Study Number 3?Measuring Events in the Stream of Time ***5 Starting From the Pivotal Date. The pivotal date for counting back to Adam?s creation is that of Cyrus? overthrow of the Babylonian dynasty, 539 B.C.E.

    Ok here is the kicker.
    What good is a prophecy that lives or dies; stands or falls based on archeology? Any prophecy of relevance, especially one this big should be provable internally. I?ve seen the bible coincide with history. I?ve seen history agree with the bible. But I?ve never seen a prophecy that can only be proven with the aid of a secular historic pivotal date. What good is the bible if you have to be a historian, archeologist, Hebrew and Greek scholar just to understand it? Are we really to believe that this prophecy could only be understood after the relevant archeological discoveries were made?

    For a Christian, dates don?t matter. The law of the Christ does. So while I see you guys bat dates and archeology back and forth, none of it really is relative to faith.
    Now if you want to be involved in a purely academic discussion of when Jerusalem fell, well that?s cool, but it?s just not relevant to being a Christian, it?s only relevant to the cult that builds its teachings around that date.

    :)!!!!! Bye

  • mtbatoon
    mtbatoon

    I?ve travelled on the British rail system and I don?t even believe their timetables.

    But I get your point, as long as the train gets you to your destination.

  • Pole
    Pole

    Come on scholar, it's been 7 minutes since this thread got posted. Where are ya?


    Pole

  • undercover
    undercover

    Even if 607 is correct the math doesnt add up.

    2520 times from 607 does not equal 1914. 607 to 1914 is 2520 years. A year has 365 days. A time has 360 days(as declared by the WTS). That's a discrepancy of 5 days a year. Over 2520 years that's 12600 days or over 34 years.

    So, you're right: 607? 587? What does it matter?

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    The wtbts; correct or full of codswallop - what does it matter ?

  • Wallflower
    Wallflower

    The important thing is not the date, but that 607 is an act of faith, which sets the WTBS apart from everybody else.
    They could have chosen any date (and did) and then wrapped a load of nonsensical mathematical calculations around it to prophesy anything at anytime they wanted to. The average JW takes it all onboard without question, as they do with the rest of the garbage.
    Arguing 607 with a JW is like broken pencil - absolutely pointless. It's the "we know we are right and have faith" syndrome and no amount of logic, data, facts, archaelogy, scripture, reasoning, diagrams, evidence, Babylonian tablets or Jewish history will convince them of anything except you are an apostate SOB sent from Satan.
    I know I've tried it.

  • dostprefer
    dostprefer

    erRe: 607? 587? What does it matter?

    This topic title has to be applauded. I am sure it was not set as bait for the unwary or 'spiritual food' for the gormless.

    Validation of the correct date is not inconsequential where there is respect fpr historical accuracy

    If researchers avoid getting themselves into a tizzy, they should be able to sort it out

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC
    This topic title has to be applauded. I am sure it was not set as bait for the unwary or 'spiritual food' for the gormless.

    Bait? Ya. Spiritual food? I'd never presume to do that.

    is not inconsequential where there is respect fpr historical accuracy

    Absolutley. I'm not saying the debate is wrong. Im just saying if god cared whether or not we knew the date he'd a put the date in the bible. Interpretation of prophecy shouldnt depend on archeology, and it does for the dubs.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    Does 607 or 587 or 609 or 586 or 1914 really matter?

    Well in a sense no - it is not that important - but in another it tells us that the FDS is prepared to lie and mislead its follwers when they know there is very substantial evidence against 607

  • fairchild
    fairchild

    Does 607 or 587 or 609 or 586 or 1914 really matter?

    Well in a sense no - it is not that important - but in another it tells us that the FDS is prepared to lie and mislead its follwers when they know there is very substantial evidence against 607
    Fair enough, and in that aspect, it DOES matter to people who are seeking the 'truth'. As a matter of fact, they used to use the date 606 BCE for several years. Unfortunately, that date led to 1915, not 1914. Somewhere along the line, according to R. Franz, the date got 'quietly changed' from 606 BCE to 607 BCE, in order to reach the 1914 date. Speaking of re-writing the history books!

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