Does the WTS's past matter?

by M.J. 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TD

  The JW faith not only teaches that many biblical prophecies, parables, visions and "types" were realized in the late 19th and 20th centuries but that collectively, the JW faith was either intimately involved with or the actual target of most of them

  From the JW perspective, how was the parable of the wise and foolish virgins fulfilled and when? How was the parable of the faithful and wise steward fulfilled and when? How was the parable of the talents fulfilled and when? How was the parable of the penny fulfilled and when? Who is the man with the writers inkhorn? Who fulfilled the vision of the valley of dry bones and how did those bones come to life? When were the seven seals of Revelation opened and what happened? When were the seven trumpets of Revelation blown and what happened? What were the symbolic locusts of Revelation? What did they do and when?

  I've barely scratched the surface here....

  The point is, what did or did not happen in the past is most certainly important to JW's because it carries a tremendous doctrinal significance. This is the unavoidable consequence when a religious organization wraps the entire Bible around itself.

  Any JW who denies this is either ignorant or simply not thinking things through. (Or both --- unfortunately, this is probably the majority of JW's)
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  trevor

  Jehovah?s Witnesses believe that there is a universal court case going on to settle the issue of God?s right to rule the earth. The issue is one of universal sovereignty. They claim to be God?s witnesses in the court case, appointed by him, to put forward his side of the debate.

  If this were a case held even in an imperfect human court, how many times could such witnesses make false statements and claims before their honesty was called into question? How many failed promises and false dates could be entered into the court record before the witnesses were discredited and their testimony considered inadmissible? At what point would the judge conclude that such unreliable testimony was damaging to the case, and such witnesses were actually harming the reputation of the one they were claiming to support?

  However well intended the efforts of witnesses in a court case, their testimony has to be truthful and unchanging. It cannot be altered and embellished as the case progresses. It is not enough for the witnesses to say that they meant well and were trying to help. No just court can tolerate such mischief. How well have Jehovah?s Witnesses presented their testimony and has it helped the cause of the one they claim has sent them to testify?
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  iiz2cool

  For the 20 years I was a JW they always held my "worldly" past against me, so yeah, they should be equally accountable for their past.

  Walter
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  confusedjw

  Apparently it does matter if you consider how often they point to "Sincere Bible Students were pointing to 1914 as a significant date decades before WWI broke out..."

  So if they were making predicitions at the same time, that didn't come true wouldn't that mean they were.....oh never mind no one will listen.
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  Elsewhere

  I would agree with her reasoning IF:

  • The WTS did not claim to be "Gods sole channel of communication on earth".
  • The WTS did not claim to be a prophet.
  • The WTS did not claim to publish "not mens words, but gods".

  If what the WTS claims about itself, the only mistakes they should be making would be typos and occasional quality control problems with the printing presses - smudges and things like that.

  However, what we are seeing are blatant prophecy and dogma failures and reforms on a regular basis.

  1889 "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889)

  1908 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)

  1917 "And the mountains were not found. Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy." (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 258)

  1917 "It is the Day of Vengeance, which began in the world war of 1914 and which will break like a furious morning storm in 1918." (The Finished Mystery, 1917, p. 404)

  1920 '...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 88)

  1920 'Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old' (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 89-90)

  1922 "The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (The Watchtower, March 1, 1922)

  1922 '1914 ended the Gentile Times...The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures...by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed' (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262)

  1923 '1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures...the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge' (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106)

  1925 "The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (Watchtower 1925, p. 56)

  1940 The Kingdom is here, the King is enthroned. Armageddon is just ahead. The glorious reign of Christ that shall bring blessings to the world will immediately follow. Therefore the great climax has been reached. Tribulation has fallen upon those who stand by the Lord. (The Messenger, Sept. 1940, p. 6)

  1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)

  1989 Jehovah?s prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: ?This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.? (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment...
  The Watchtower 1984 May 15 pp. 6-7

  1989 "The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1989, p. 12 [bound volume changed "20th century" to "day"])

  Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: 'This generation (of 1914) will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son's words in a relatively short time." {WT May 15 1984 6}

  *** Watchtower 1943 July 1 pp. 202-203 ***
  Nothing is interpreted but the interpretation comes from God and is then published.

  *** Watchtower 1957 June 15 p. 37 ***
  It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.

  *** Awake! 1986 June 8 p.9 "Would That All Were Prophets!" ***
  You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  *** Watchtower 1960 July 15 p. 439 ***
  "The 'slave' class has served as God's sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time."

  *** Watchtower 1964 June 15 pp.365-6 Jehovah, the God of Progressive Revelation ***
  THE KINGDOM'S ESTABLISHMENT
  22 As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale. All this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it. The abundance of spiritual food and the amazing details of Jehovah's purposes that have been revealed to Jehovah's anointed witnesses are clear evidence that they are the ones mentioned by Jesus when he foretold a "faithful and discreet slave" class that would be used to dispense God's progressive revelations in these last days. [...]
  23 The holy spirit of Jehovah is working mightily today! How thankful we should be for the provision God has made of this slave class, the modern spiritual remnant, as they faithfully dispense the revealed truths of Jehovah! With these rich truths to light the way, Christians do not grope in this dark, jungle-like world as do the masses of people in Christendom and heathendom alike. To the contrary, Jehovah's faithful witnesses have been progressively brought to an understanding of Jehovah's purposes, which are clearer now than ever before in history. Their organization, being patterned after the first-century Christian congregation, is blessed by Jehovah. He has prospered their work of preaching "this good news of the kingdom" in 194 different lands to date. Each year they gather into the organization tens of thousands of new ministers, clearly a product of Jehovah's spirit operating through his invisible King-Son and his angelic representatives, then through his faithful slave class on earth today.-Matt. 24:14.

  *** Watchtower 1964 October 1 p.601 Pay Attention to Prophecy ***
  for God has on earth today a prophetlike organization, ... Jehovah's anointed witnesses on earth.

  *** Watchtower 1965 June 1 p.352 Questions from Readers ***
  New features of the work have required new methods, which has meant revisions and changes from time to time in organization instructions, but it is all a part of the advancement of Jehovah's theocratically controlled organization under the immediate direction of Jehovah God himself. Therefore, these revisions and changes are themselves fully theocratic, so they do not alter in any way the fully theocratic structure of the organization.

  *** Watchtower 1972 August 1 p.458 Loving Oversight of the Congregation of God ***
  THEOCRATIC APPOINTMENT IN THE CONGREGATION
  10 But who is at the head of this rapidly expanding congregation, you ask? Is it some brilliant, farsighted man, some human who is a master organizer? No, for the Christian congregation is operated theocratically, meaning that it recognizes the leadership only of Jehovah God as exercised through his Son and enthroned King, Jesus Christ. (Isa. 33:22; Heb. 12:2; Rev. 19:16) This is what makes the congregation theocratic in structure, adhering to God-rule. If an organization is to be fully theocratic, it must be directed and controlled altogether by God and by the forces he operates. It is vital, therefore, that each one recognize that Jesus Christ is the Head of the Christian congregation, as well as showing proper regard for those on earth who have been theocratically appointed to positions of oversight.-Phil. 2:9-11; 1 Cor. 11:3; Acts 14:23.

  *** Watchtower 1981 February 15 p.19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***
  OUR VIEW OF THE "SLAVE"
  We can benefit from this consideration. If we have once established what instrument God is using as his "slave" to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using. At the Brooklyn headquarters from which the Bible publications of Jehovah's Witnesses emanate there are more mature Christian elders, both of the "remnant" and of the "other sheep," than anywhere else upon earth.

  *** Watchtower 1981 December 1 p.27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***
  Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones ... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.

  *** Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth-But How? ***
  A third requirement is that we be associated with God's channel, his organization. ... Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.

  (Watchtower 1931 November 1 p. 327)The Watchtower recognizes the truth as belonging to Jehovah, and not to any creature. The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men. No man?s opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will.

  (Watchtower 1943 July 1 p. 202, 203)
  Jehovah God is therefore the only Supreme Court of interpretation of His inspired word.... To such remnant of faithful servants of Jehovah God Christ Jesus has entrusted all ?his goods?, or earthly interests of the Kingdom. This does not signify that the faithful remnant or society of Jehovah?s anointed witnesses are an earthly tribunal of interpretation, delegated to interpret the Scriptures and its prophecies. No; Christ Jesus the King has not entrusted that office to them. THE SUPREME COURT STILL INTERPRETS, thank God; and Christ Jesus, the Court?s official mouthpiece of interpretation, reserves to himself that office as head of Jehovah?s ?faithful and wise servant? class. He merely uses the ?servant? class to publish the interpretation after the Supreme Court by Christ Jesus reveals it.
• 

  Gill

  You don't know where you're going if you can't see where you're coming from.

  The JW history helps to plot their course for the future....round and round in circles. So what they've said and done in the past does matter very much.
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  mustang

  Oh, Hell yes!!!!

  Mustang
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  IT Support

  M.J.

  Interesting thread. I've enjoyed the various thoughts.

  She has accepted the fact that like any human or human organization, mistakes are made and that JWs have acknowledged these mistakes.

  For me, why it matters is that they have not acknowledged their past mistakes, or in the few instances where they have, they try to put a 'spin' on it to say that they weren't wrong, it was just the way Jehovah was leading them at the time.

  Then there are their blatant lies about their past, again to try to put themselves in a good light to the majority of JWs who know no better.

  So, the past mistakes on their own do not make them a false religion, but out of their own mouths they condemn themselves by their present dishonesty over their past mistakes.
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  M.J.

  If you were going to get surgery, and you found a surgeon that was REALLY CONVINCING that he was the ONLY QUALIFIED surgeon for your procedure, yet you found that this person had multiple malpractice suits against him and had killed a few people on the operating table, WOULD THAT MATTER?
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  seattleniceguy

  Hello MJ,

  Yes, their past does matter. Here's why.

  Imagine you were Joe or Jane Reasonable, living in some decade past when outrageously silly things were printed in the Watchtower and GoldenAge/Awake. You receive a copy from a nicely dressed couple at your door. You take a read, and conclude that these guys are totally nuts. Take for example the insane article on Gravitation and Electrical Enegy that appeared in a 1932 Golden Age. Any reasonable and knowledgeable person would dismiss the group out of hand at that time. Even Witnesses today would have to admit that it would be hard to take the group seriously, given the content of the literature at that time.

  So here's the critical point: If it is understandable that Joe or Jane Reasonable might have legitimately dismissed the group as crackpots in times past, were they in the wrong for doing so? If not, what about in more recent times, when a person could have legitimately dismissed the group for their strange beliefs (such as calling organ transplants "cannibalism")? Would a person then have been in the wrong for conscientiously deciding that the group was wrong? Keen in mind that even modern Witnesses must agree that the group was wrong back then.

  What about the group today? Is it conceivable that a person could make a reasoned and conscientious decision that the group is wrong? If not, what has changed recently, as opposed to years or decades ago? At what point did it become impossible to legitimately disagree with the group?

  Some food for thought.

  SNG